Dominatin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Frank

Great post and good food for thought. A lot of what's said is spot on.

The Driver issue is a massive one. I wrote to Harold Park over 10yrs ago imploring them to have a system like the Medowlands where it's somewhat a closed group of drivers.

Punters bet on consistency so the same core group of drivers going around promote consistency, coupled with consistent trainers and performing horses. The TAB put out a report some years ago saying how galloping punting (casual and small punter) was majority based around a favourite or particular rider. Somewhat like a Beadman in his heyday where his horses were sent out a couple of points under the odds due to his presence.

The current crop of drivers at Menangle classed as 'Metro' drivers are a disgrace, pure and simple. Most have no idea whatsoever on rating a horse or assessing form and this is why they get handled badly by quality drivers such as McCarthy.

Have you seen a Menangle (Bulli) or Bankstown Monday meeting or Tuesday Menangle meeting for driver quality - absolutely disgraceful. No wonder punters are steered off when they can't recognise 95% of who's going around. Drivers should also have their own colours, irrespective of who their driving, exactly like the USA. It's easy to spot in a race and follow that driver consistently.

It is a so-called professional sport yet over run with non-professionals, plain and simple.

Blokes are holding down regular jobs as weekend/morning warriors, yes because they love it, but yet training poor quality stock and in an amatuer fashion and then complain they can't compete against the likes of McCarthy/Fitzpatrick etc like it's their right to win a race? It's no one's right to train a horse and get freebie wins, it's a competitive industry and blokes like Luke are taking it seriously to the upmost in order to maximise his potential earnings from it, plain and simple.

Don't build a home computer and then complain that you can't get ahead of Apple...

Agree with the driver issue 100%. Lets hope they CAN do something about it, maybe grade it, i just dont know.
And yes LM is taking it seriously very seriously, so what happens when most owners move over to him, of cause he maximises his earnings but i dont agree its plain & simple, because as LMs stable gets bigger & bigger (maybe with Andy & Todd) what happens then, other trainers WILL be forced to leave. They will not be able to afford to stay, no big owners, no winners = no money.
Also this industry is not big enough to have it "professional" ( i too wish that) but its not, just have a look around on race nights, days etc, that will show you the reason why it is not.

\\.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amiacar

Why would you race a horse in nsw ? Just to make up the field ....

NO but lots are if LMs in the race, someone said he had 100% the other night, I looked up Maitland & apparently would have had 80% if one hadn't been knocked down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peteboss4

NO but lots are if LMs in the race, someone said he had 100% the other night, I looked up Maitland & apparently would have had 80% if one hadn't been knocked down.

How many trainers are prepared to travel like Luke so that they can place their horses in the most suitable race.

Last year I told Luke I wanted Sixpence to be set for the Red Ochre at Dubbo. He said no problem. He got home at 3am and was up at 7am getting ready to take horses to Goulburn the next day.

Way too many trainers are just too lazy and expect good horses to land in their laps. How many trainers are prepared to put their own skin the game and buy a piece of a horse? How many trainers will have open days at their stables to attract new clients?? How many trainers have up to date websites?? How many trainers get to the yearling sales and inspect all the lots??

Sadly, the answer to all these questions is very, very few(if any in some circumstances)

PS - Im not saying Luke does all of these things, but he does a lot more than any others i know

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymo

How many trainers are prepared to travel like Luke so that they can place their horses in the most suitable race.

Last year I told Luke I wanted Sixpence to be set for the Red Ochre at Dubbo. He said no problem. He got home at 3am and was up at 7am getting ready to take horses to Goulburn the next day.

Way too many trainers are just too lazy and expect good horses to land in their laps. How many trainers are prepared to put their own skin the game and buy a piece of a horse? How many trainers will have open days at their stables to attract new clients?? How many trainers have up to date websites?? How many trainers get to the yearling sales and inspect all the lots??

Sadly, the answer to all these questions is very, very few(if any in some circumstances)

PS - Im not saying Luke does all of these things, but he does a lot more than any others i know

Respect every single word you say Harvey, but i think the point Murray is making is a valad one, it has nothing to do with all LMs work ect because HE IS doing all you say & good luck to him, but you are a business man i believe & if someone came along opened the same business as you, & most of your clients moved over to the new person in town because he was doing such a great job, what happenes to your business?

Drivers/Trainers

I think that the driver problem could be solved by NOT paying a trainer/driver a driving fee or win%, you could then increase the driving fee for the full time driver. This would make professional driving a more viable business and would perhaps encourage these drivers to travel to the country tracks. Hobby trainers should only hold a B class license and only train horse owned by the trainer or his immediate family. This would ensure that more horses would be trained by the professional trainers, it would also create more employment in the industry as these stables become bigger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peteboss4

Respect every single word you say Harvey, but i think the point Murray is making is a valad one, it has nothing to do with all LMs work ect because HE IS doing all you say & good luck to him, but you are a business man i believe & if someone came along opened the same business as you, & most of your clients moved over to the new person in town because he was doing such a great job, what happenes to your business?

you would change or improve your business model.

Ask Gerry Harvey what he is going to do now that internet retailing is destroying his once succeesful business model?? Firstly, he complains! Secondly, he is making changes.

Trainers can put their own cash up and buy some going horses or yearlings. Owners would be far more confident going into a horse knowing the trainer is putting his hard earned in as well

[QUOTE=peteboss4;15338]
Also this industry is not big enough to have it "professional" ( i too wish that) but its not, just have a look around on race nights, days etc, that will show you the reason why it is not.

See Pete that one is a no brainier. You reduce the size of the industry to get the quality up. It's just good business instead of having 3 tracks in Sydney having 5 meetings a week you have one track racing 3 meetings a week. Higher betting turnover per race this equals:
Higher prize money
Require less horses
You have a more professional sport
Better regulation
Almost no weekend warrior trainers and drivers

Anyone that thinks harness racing needs weekend warriors is dreaming and quite frankly the sooner they are wiped out the better. They have nothing to offer.

If Todd and Andy McCarthy make there way to nsw even better it will give Luke some decent trainers to compete against just what harness racing needs.

Bring it on the sooner the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peteboss4

Respect every single word you say Harvey, but i think the point Murray is making is a valad one, it has nothing to do with all LMs work ect because HE IS doing all you say & good luck to him, but you are a business man i believe & if someone came along opened the same business as you, & most of your clients moved over to the new person in town because he was doing such a great job, what happenes to your business?

Simple answer. You work harder, you work smarter, you change what u may have been doing, u study training techniques, u study NEW training techniques, u study how the best horses in the world are being trained, And maybe, this is what u should have been doing in the first place! How many trainers are in their comfort zone, doing the same things they have done for the last 20-30 years BUT expect different results?
Now not all trainers are guilty of the above, but those who may cry about LM have no right when they are their own worst enemy.
As PETEBOSS said above "Also this industry is not big enough to have it "professional" ( i too wish that) but its not, just have a look around on race nights, days etc, that will show you the reason why it is not."...in other words (mine, not peteboss) there are a lot of older generation nan and pop trainers/drivers who are TOO set in their ways too fuddy duddy narrow-minded to accept that someone getting results like Luke is potentially legit.
Now before someone jumps on here and blasts my "outrageous broad generalization" my "concept" of "nan and pop syndrome" is apparent in all walks of life not just the trots...
Also as i said not all are guilty but a damn hell of a lot are...one could argue here for the 80/20 rule!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymo

you would change or improve your business model.

Ask Gerry Harvey what he is going to do now that internet retailing is destroying his once succeesful business model?? Firstly, he complains! Secondly, he is making changes.

Trainers can put their own cash up and buy some going horses or yearlings. Owners would be far more confident going into a horse knowing the trainer is putting his hard earned in as well

Harvey, every one wants to be a winner & with a winner, no doubt about that. But even before LM turned up these guys had no spare cash, they cant afford to buy horses & now they are struggling even more, changing your buisness model would normaly work with another industry but lets face it, would you give your horses to these other trainers if they could changed their buisness model? Be honest. No one would. These other buisness like Harvey Norman have a credit buffer & can afford to change, the other trainers are basically living from week to week and can not. The point Murray is making im sure, is the wealth is not being shared hence most of these blokes will go broke.

Hi Peter,
Sorry to jump in here but from your last post I would take it that the trainers you speak of are already broke, and so what has changed since LM has arrived?

Training fee? Could a young person expect to make any sought of a living from training, and how many horses would you need?