2013-2015 Inters

Quote:

Originally Posted by triplev123

I always find it fascinating how so many people in the Harness Racing Industry are taken aback by those who feel it neccessary to stridently express their views about where the Industry has been, where it is at present and where it should be headed in the future.
I've been watching these absolutely wonderful Standardbreds of ours go around since back when I wasn't tall enough to see over the outside fence & was of an age where I didn't have to worry about going to school the next day if we got home late from a Sunday meeting...and little has changed in the ensuing 38 odd years as far as the way in which the Industry meets change.
Whenever they're confronted by views that are a little outside the square...there has always existed a widespread desire to turn a blind eye and pretend it is not happening and so continue to live in a state of blissful ignorance...and woe betide the messenger of anything and everything that did not allow this situation to continue ad infinitum.
It is true that Hayes balances rather beautifully upon the fence in respect of a great deal of the above and a great deal of the time too because while he is quite forward thinking in many areas he's also back with the Dinosaurs in some others, with this particular ID discussion IMO being a very good example thereof.
Nevertheless I can't pot the guy the forthrightness of his views and I will take his part when anyone lines up on the guy personally. We all see things through our own individual prisms and IMO if we had more people that were as passionate about things as he is then I'd be pretty damned pleased about it let me tell you.
The simple answer to the question that Hayes and others pose as to why the ID needs to undergo some level of change, in this instance a quite substantial level of change, is the same basic answer to question of why the thankfully now defunct NSW Sires Stakes needed to be given the rocket...IT WAS NO LONGER WORKING. The ID Brand was also NO LONGER WORKING.
Perhaps, if I have my understanding of the new/proposed format right, GC races effectively being Heats leading up to a GC/ID Final at Menangle will work a treat, perhaps for reasons unforseen it won't. We'll know in due course & it will not be the end of the world that some are painting the finding out period to be. One thing is for sure, doing nothing & leaving it basically rudderless as it is now...will definitely see us preside over the ID's demise.

I've heard 1000 people says its broke; but I haven't heard one reason why its broke?
The GC/ID final won't work for reasons I listed above; not for reasons unforseen. Plus why should states change when there race is to please the ID (assuming its 'fair' and races are held on same date). And why should IMTQ miss out because he draws 13 over at GP and gets beaten a whisker. Why should say Decorated Jasper avoid the Vics and go to South Australia and get a spot. Or why should Ohoka Nevada be gifted a spot? Or why should Gedlee be given a spot because he won in Tas?????
Why do NZ only get 2 horses in unless they travel to Aust for a heat which is ridiculous. The Kiwi representation is almost always more than 2. They had 4 or 5 in the Sydney one last year.
Or if the state races are on at different times of year what is to say that horse will be racing well come March. Make Mine Cullen was a dead set certainty for the Ladyship Mile and such races but come April she got beaten. Why should some horses like Smoken Up have 6 or 7 chances at winning his way through while others like Make Me Smile only get the 1 chance???
Plus the last couple of spots is chosen by the race club?? Criticising their selections once a year at Miracle Mile time is enough let alone criticising their selections twice a year. Go back to Miracle Mile time and I guarantee one of the main discussions on this forum was who should/who shouldn't be in the race.
NSW had a stand alone Group 1 race over 2 miles. It was called the Ben Hur. Are they missing it????

Hahaha Nat you would be a fair chance I'd say.

Not broken, more so gone off.

I don't think it's broken as such Breno, rather the traditional ID format has reached its use by date...something that is not helped by the fact that these days it is largely a rudderless ship. Tradition is all well and good but it is not enough in and of itself to justify a stagnation.
Traditionally Witches would be burned at the stake but these days they are allowed to roam free & largely unaccosted, one has even become the Australian PM. :eek:

vvv- that statement about our PM in your last sentence is completely unnecessary here. I thought you were better than that with that type of remark.

Hey Triple

I'll have to agree with you about the PM remark, she is a disgrace, compulsive liar, out of touch and if she speaks any slower you could have a 5 min nap and not miss a word. Carbon taxes means lost job's smart one Julia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by triplev123

I don't think it's broken as such Breno, rather the traditional ID format has reached its use by date...something that is not helped by the fact that these days it is largely a rudderless ship. Tradition is all well and good but it is not enough in and of itself to justify a stagnation.
Traditionally Witches would be burned at the stake but these days they are allowed to roam free & largely unaccosted, one has even become the Australian PM. :eek:

Being young maybe the ID means something else to me then what it does to the experienced members of the harness fraternity and thus you think its reached it use by date. But I absolutely love the 2 or 3 heats of the top 36 horses then a week of much anticipation followed by the final. It beats every other Grand Circuit race; even Hunter Cups, Vic Cups and Miracle Miles where it could be argue those field are actually stronger in some years. So maybe what I get out of it is different. But if elder statesmen believe the current race series is not deserving of the Interdom title, well rename it and keep doing the same format because I absolutely love it!!!
Or maybe its like golf. You love hitting the ball and enjoy the first 9 holes. But then you get bored with it cos its the same thing and by the 18th you are flaming mad and sick of it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashing Red

Bring back the three heats and the final. It separated the men from the boys! Anyone who thinks the modern horses can't do it should watch the 3yos on Jug Day! Racing 2 sometimes 3 times in the one day, with times never slower than about 52 for the colts, all on a half mile track! Good on WA for reverting back to the original format! :)

Hi Flashing Red and Nat. I agree with both of you. Harping back to the dark ages of the sixties and seventies it wasn't uncommon to race your horse twice in one night and more often than not they would perform better the second start. I'm a bit of a traditionalist but if there is one thing that would sway me is holding the ID's at Menagle - fantastic track-every state should have one.

G'day Breno,

It seems that there's at least as much if not more objection out there to the changed format still being referred to as the ID as there is objection to the format actually being changed. I'm not the greatest to comment on it really because I prefer 2yo & 3yo Classic Racing to the Open/FFA/Cups/ID ranks.
In saying that, if the format were to change as proposed then I'd dearly LOVE to see a really genuine effort made to create an accompanying 2yo & 3yo Grand Circuit that could travel right alongside the Aged horses. Wouldn't that be something?

vvv- that would certainly be an interesting concept with the younger horses (I'd certainly like to see that ) , but I think the logistics involved in getting all the states to work together and accept this concept would be a major stumbling block. State authorities all have their own set agendas and as we know can be very stubborn when it comes to change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mighty Atom

Hi Flashing Red and Nat. I agree with both of you. Harping back to the dark ages of the sixties and seventies it wasn't uncommon to race your horse twice in one night and more often than not they would perform better the second start. I'm a bit of a traditionalist but if there is one thing that would sway me is holding the ID's at Menagle - fantastic track-every state should have one.

Qld could have one but there is too much squabbling going on at the moment!! :( In the US, they all warm up their horses and sometimes the drivers in the score down turn them and work them a mile trip as well! They all seem to believe they race better after a warm up and/or blowout on racenight. I go through periods of gym involvement, when running I feel exhausted the first 5-10 minutes but then its like you get a second wind. I'm sure its the same for horses (ever driven one that's sluggish the first trip yet on the steel by the second or third trip when you're at home??) :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by triplev123

G'day Breno,

It seems that there's at least as much if not more objection out there to the changed format still being referred to as the ID as there is objection to the format actually being changed. I'm not the greatest to comment on it really because I prefer 2yo & 3yo Classic Racing to the Open/FFA/Cups/ID ranks.
In saying that, if the format were to change as proposed then I'd dearly LOVE to see a really genuine effort made to create an accompanying 2yo & 3yo Grand Circuit that could travel right alongside the Aged horses. Wouldn't that be something?

I guess they go hand in hand. I don't like the format being changed because I like it that way. And I guess it isn't the 'traditional' Interdominion brand. That word tradition you mentioned earlier. But for me its tradition because thats what people want and the unwillingness to change isn't because it's traditional but rather because I like things the way they are. Keeping to my golf analogy; it they outlawed the use of putters I'd get the shits because I like using a putter, not because its tradition to use a putter.
2yo grand circuit...don't like it. There are enough races for them to earn recognition; APG, ABC, Statebreds and the 2yos often don't meet other because these races are exclusive and paid up series. So the elite don't meet each other much. Those race series are not going to go away and be replaced so the only option is to add additional races. It's pretty rare for a horse to win the APG, Statebred, ABC let alone two or three open 2yo grand circuit races on top of that. There is enough racing for the 2yos already imo; maybe races like Sapling Stakes and Tatlow could move to G1 to cater for 2yos that aren't paid up for other races if there was a need to increase the amount of top class 2yo racing but having trainers chasing a grand prize of the Grand Circuit with 2yos is something I don't like. We may have a situation where only 2 or 3 go chasing the grand circuit and get one win and a couple placings whereas there are a couple of better 2yos who stuck to a few races makes the grand circuit award a bit of a puff puff award.
3yo grand circuit. Yeah good idea. Make something more of the Derbies and plan the timing of these races. Apart from SA because there prizemoney is ordinary the states could work something out where the Statebred may only clash with 1 interstate derby which allows the horses to get to more derbies. A lot of the 3yos can handle the extra racing and it might even prepare them for Aged Racing. I mean how many star 3yos just don't go on?