I am sure there were a couple of races you could have enjoyed Kati
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I am sure there were a couple of races you could have enjoyed Kati
The Stewart stable won 4/5 they contested tonight to take it to 16/19 Vicbred heats contested
Only one, Kevin. The one still to come (hence I'm still awake though yawning...).Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
I was actually meaning the heats Kati, and thinking many would enjoy R5+7 (I actually enjoyed more than just those two)
And the “big guns” from the Stewart stable in the 3yo last year, Poster Boy and Ride High were absent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
Don't know but doesn't matter anyway because stewards deemed a few weeks ago it is ok to share tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
+ Maraetei the biggest gun of all !Quote:
Originally Posted by Dot
Do you mean the Holloway Classic Brendan when the Stewart stable had the whole field?Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebreno
The stewards did qualify their announcing the intended tactics with
"As trainer Emma Stewart has all of the six horses engaged. ..."
What do you propose Rick? I don’t see putting all horses from one stable in one heat as a viable suggestion. Changing the format and prizemoney distribution may see the spoils more widely shared. Maybe the tiered series of the New York and Ontario Sires Stakes with some Aussie variants on being able to cross over or not between series? Or perhaps 24 individual heats across the state over a period of time, winners into semi final and ineligible to contest further heats, and a max number of heats a horse can contest, higher prizemoney money for heats, less for semi and finals, and hope the Stewart stable don’t have 24 horses in each division?Quote:
Originally Posted by gutwagon
I don’t think you can punish a stable and its owners as you suggest Ric just for being too successful in the series as it stands, but Adminstrators can redesign the series if it’s not achieving the outcomes they are seeking.
I am worried people will take this the wrong way but here goes
Racing survived the Weir suspension as we would a Stewart suspension BUT we don't want that
Gallops people are in inredulous of the Stewart success rate
It is fairly unbelievable
In the interest of the industry we need to show that they are clean
There has to be a placement for some considerable time that proves they are beyond reproach and deserve to be acclaimed
The reason I post this now, is that we have people suggesting we need to change the system, let's make sure the current system is broke first and get some clear air
Australia emraces the Tall Poppy Syndrome, there is no point pretending we don't so let's counter it with some definitive proof
Dot, I think putting all same stable runners in one heat would mostly solve the problem. Their best 5 or so horses would still make the final and they would probably win the final still. They would just get much less prize money on the way to the final, leaving a lot more for other stables and providing more competitive racing and more turnover generated.
If owners don't want their horse in the heat with all their stablemates they could choose a smaller stable from the beginning, again that would help the industry.
Having one huge stable dominate any code of racing just kills the interest of the public and other competitors. It drives people away from the sport.
Rick I’d certainly prefer not to see a dominating stable either but you don’t think the all the horses from the one stable, in the one heat solution you propose isn’t readily circumvented? Large stables operate with a number of staff, some family, some employees, just have a number of them obtain a trainers licence and switch the horses into ostensibly someone else name. The way the Menangle training centre operates, and I believe similar is proposed for Melton, means trainers do not have to have seperate unique training/stabling facilities and the same would apply to training on a private property.
Could use the ”Aquanita” style of management, no not the pre race drenches and top ups, the trainers train the horses and all administration, bills out, bills paid, supplies ordered wages etc, is done for them by an Office Adminstrator. Horses have seperate trainers now so won’t be in the same heat, there is now some confusion for industry officials and some punters at least as to who is the bone fide trainer, and the “large stable” can still dominate the races, but are now less likely to win a premiership of course as the wins are shared around a number of “trainers”.
Nah. Don't like it. What if your nice honest 3C1 draws a heat against Centenario, Hurricane Harley, Hardhitter, Demon Delight etc while another 3C1 of similar ability gets a gift run through because draws weak heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by gutwagon
And not to mention if that trainer, who ordinarily is considered to be a small trainer, just happens to have, for the first time in their career, two nice 3C1s and they both have to be in against those aforementioned horses because the policy is all a trainers horses have to be in the same heat!
( think we just had something like that happen under the no trainer splits conditions )
I had an email suggesting it isn't tall poppy syndrome that makes people sceptical of the Stewart/Tonkin success but rather the memory of Tonkin's suspension over blue magic.
I don't think many remember this, especially punters that are primarily gallops followers, I still think it is the mathematical implausibility of their success rate or tall poppy
The series seemed to work a lot better when there were a lot more heats spread over several months, each country club would have some heats. If a horse had some bad luck in one heat it had a chance to run in another. Why was it changed ?
Kevin, you know the old saying "If it's too good to be true ...."
Just looking at the fields for the semi finals and Tonkin/Stewarts would be very happy as they got fairly even splits in everything except the 4yo mares semis. Well with at least 2 of their runners in the races it will make for better betting.
Confidence booster: Get ALL horses to the track 4 hours before their race.
Oh I think that could be way more interesting if the requirement was to get half a stables representatives to the track 4 hours before the first race.
The retention barn works well in NSW and horses are accommodated in the barn . Some horses are already there well before their races so stewards could test earlier if required. However, we must consider horse welfare, it is unfair to expect them to stand at the races hours before their race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galli
And the R11 the 1st semi for the 3yoF is much stronger than R12 the 2nd semi which will see Kualoa and some lesser fillies make the finalQuote:
Originally Posted by gutwagon
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...s/?mc=MX290619
They have to do that quite often anyway - as soon as you take 2 or more horses to the races. I wish someone thought about horse welfare (let alone the connections'!) when we took two to Kilmore in winter. One in the race 1, the other in the last 3.5 hours later!!!! We sat at the stalls (can't leave the horses unattended!) and ran with them in the parade ring every now and again. +4, rain and wind. Never again...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie
Horses stand most of the day anyway (and what's keeping the stable staff from walking them around?). If we are serious about improving the integrity, then let's get serious! Getting them to the track early is cheaper than providing security to all the stables.
You can’t predict what race your horse will be in when you enter and with multiple runners your experience is not a one off Kati. Usually all runners from one stable travel to the races in one float/ truck.If the horse in the first is required 4 hours before their race ( not 1 hour as required now ) it extends the wait time for the horse in the last by 3 hours. Add travel time and it can be another 2 hours. Horses might stand all day Kati but not in the one spot. Integrity should not be judged on the cheapest option but the most effective.
Are you offering to pay for it then? Or should we take that money off the total stakes of VicBred Series? Racing for ribbons next? I'm sorry, but something's got to give...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie
Obviously we must be mindful of horse welfare, and for the welfare of the people charged with their care during the course of a long long day. Box stalls on course would obviously be desirable but aren’t available at Melton. The yearlings when the premier trotting sale was on managed to stand in the tie up stalls for for virtually all day. Granted some racehorses may find it more difficult but that I guess is part of the difference between being a racehorse and being a good racehorse.
As a one off, or on infrequent occasions such as features, it would be possible to make the stalls more hospitable to horses with comfort flooring mats, or perhaps shavings or straw. And whilst it would be an additional responsibility for stable staff they could be walked.
Granted they don’t race immediately on arrival but what is the length of a racehorses journey from western Victoria to Menangles environs by truck, where they are confined to a stall for a journey? I don’t think any of the transports stops and unloads on the journey anymore. Certainly one of the horse transport companies no longer stops and does a 24 hour leg between the quarantine station in Kalgoolie and their base near Adelaide whilst the horses stand in their stalls.
At the barest minimum the horses we export to North America will stand in stalls for 24 hours as they undertake the journey. Those that go via the polar route, as many now do, to disembark on the East Coast will be a minimum of 36 hours in the narrow confines of the shipping crate and longer still if there are unexpected delays on the journey. No one in Australia seems to quote “animal welfare” as a reason not to sell them for export to the US.
So whilst standing them in the stalls at Melton for long periods during a race meeting may not be ideal I don’t think as an industry we can say solely on the basis of animal welfare that it can’t be done. Some shipping in from the further reaches of the state in an early race, with a stable mate in the last, and then shipping home again that night are already standing in a confined space for extended periods of time.
Centenario has been scratched from his semi
Shame for him to go amiss, won’t be back until 4yo season I’ve read
Andy Gath's Vicbred semi finalist Night Spirit, R9 No.13 tonight, won at Cranbourne last night - an unusual preparation for a 2yo nowadays
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...19#CRC28061909
https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fi...19#MXM29061905
The emergency is already getting a start in that semi after finishing 9/9 in his heat - we hardly needed heats and semi's
9 semis down and the Stewart stable has won 6 and come second in the other 3
Barrier draws have started and they have won there too
Drawing 1&2 in the 2yo fillies and the 3yo boys
Congratulations to our finalists, breeder Rick, Anne with 2 winners and Grant (em) who could still have a runner
Thanks Kevin. Just wasn’t my night!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
Thanks Kevin, another honest effort from her. Will need a miracle in the final with the 12 barrier and the strength of the field.
If you are looking for the fields for the finals you will find them in the blog from semi night
https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/art...s-semi-finals/
The trotters spread the money around - six different stables for the six $100k finals
You have to love that
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...s/?mc=MX050719
Only 3 of 11 favourites won tonight and one of them was a healthy $2.90 pop, 6 started odds on and only 2 of them were successful
Andy Gath was the only trainer to get a double
I would have said that the night wasn't ruined by one dominant stable, but you are much more diplomatic than I Kevin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
Imagine if on a day of six Gp1 races at Flemington (we're not talking any old Gp1's)
Bart Cummings trained a First 4
3 Trifectas
a Quinella
and in the one he didn't win he got 2nd and 3rd
I think you mean Gai Waterhouse don’t you Kev?
No, Gai doesn't quite have the legendary status that Bart has
We do have to remember that the prizemoney is being shared between various owners (congratulations Anne)
but the Stewart stable won $535,600 of the $780,000 on offer
It did however involve a lot more work than winning the equivalent in one race with one horse eg an Inter
Thanks Kev. Pistol Abbey is an amazing mare ; just gets the job done in a very professional way. The enquiries are coming from US buyers , my head says Yes but emotionally my heart says No. She is only 4 but her racing career is very limited and I certainly don’t need another broodmare. There is one Open Mares race next week and no more until the Breeders Crown 4 year old mares on August 24 ( not even a lead up race for that ). I will not break her heart racing against the boys at the top level. Certainly there are early issues with the NR but programming leaves a lot to be desired. If you are a breeder a mare with a good track record adds value but it’s frustrating when the opportunities are not provided equally to both sexes.