Dominatin

Hi Old Frank . Did you know that the trainer of Black Caviar went for a positive swab 3 weeks before her last win for a drug that has a side effect of sudden death . He was fined $4000 . It seems to me that a person willing to risk that with his horse would do anything . The galloping industry portray him as a great trainer and horseman . Now thats "bloody tosh"

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Originally Posted by aussiebreno

Look tripleV, Smoken Up only just won his Miracles Miles. For Christian Cullen to annhilate his rivals like he did, not good for the sport and was obviously on the rocket fuel that night, if you watch the replay closely you can see a small cylinder sprouting rocketfire from his rear end.

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Hi aussiebreno I was just talking to my Dad on the phone and read your post out to him , He chuckled and said funny thing he mentioned those 2 horses and I said why , He said well Smoken UP has just lost an interdom for a possitive and the Great horse Christian Cullen was scratched from a Miracle Mile because a security guard reported to stewards he saw someone needle the horse with something .

Funny heh

Cassie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by murray green

Hey Tiny . You really should think before you put finger to keyboard . One of the main obstacles facing harness racing is the dropping number of foals being born each year . They are going to throw resorces at it to try and reverse the trend and you want to stop all breeding in NSW ? You must think that there are thousands of spare horses waiting at Bunnings to be picked up . At least they guarantee to beat everyones advertised price by 10% . Declining participation is also a main concern and you want to sack nearly all of the trainers and drivers . Every participant , including everyone of you , brings punters to harness racing . Most punters have a direct link to the industry and you want to kick most of them out . The win pool on a Saturday night might reach $50 or $60 . Harness racing is a peoples sport . Always has been . We can't afford to loose anyone including you Tiny . In 10 years I would say that 33% to 50% of participants will be dead or near enough to it . Look around at the races . There are not enough comming on to replace them .

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Great post Murray,
The sport/game /industry has had many Business GURU's play with various business models over the years and they have been so far been a distinct failure, everyone is entitled to their own opinion about each particular business and the best strategy for that business going forward, and time will tell with each business plan adopted because there are definintley no certainties just like that when you go to the trots, no certainties. I have often held the opinion that if you want kill a business then continue to restrict it. If you retsrict the business into small capsules you will, quite obviously find some capsules more profitable than others, and if you continue to follow the same mantra, after you ditch the weakest capsule then next semester/year/ another is identified as the 'weakest link" and so on and so until you have a business that is extremely narrow and completely reliant on other market forces and cannot sustain itself through difficult times.

there is no quick easy answer to any of this, but if you want a real solution then it's going to take all of us being together, excluding people/participants is not the answer.

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Originally Posted by candykisses

Hi aussiebreno I was just talking to my Dad on the phone and read your post out to him , He chuckled and said funny thing he mentioned those 2 horses and I said why , He said well Smoken UP has just lost an interdom for a possitive and the Great horse Christian Cullen was scratched from a Miracle Mile because a security guard reported to stewards he saw someone needle the horse with something .

Funny heh

Cassie

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Cassie,
Your inference Lettucerocku must be on drugs because it won by a big margin whilst others only won by a short margin. Smoken Up only won the Inter by a short margin....

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Originally Posted by Danno

Great post Murray,
The sport/game /industry has had many Business GURU's play with various business models over the years and they have been so far been a distinct failure, everyone is entitled to their own opinion about each particular business and the best strategy for that business going forward, and time will tell with each business plan adopted because there are definintley no certainties just like that when you go to the trots, no certainties. I have often held the opinion that if you want kill a business then continue to restrict it. If you retsrict the business into small capsules you will, quite obviously find some capsules more profitable than others, and if you continue to follow the same mantra, after you ditch the weakest capsule then next semester/year/ another is identified as the 'weakest link" and so on and so until you have a business that is extremely narrow and completely reliant on other market forces and cannot sustain itself through difficult times.

there is no quick easy answer to any of this, but if you want a real solution then it's going to take all of us being together, excluding people/participants is not the answer.

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Danno,
You are right many strategies haven't been particularly successful, but is that the fault of the business gurus or is it just that harness racing is a damned hard sport to run.
I like your weakest link bit. Applies to just about everything imo. It's about strengthening the weakest link, not just getting rid of it.

Murray thanks for your thoughts. But quite frankly you are very wrong. This process of restructure harness racing is going through at the moment is not about growing an already cash strapped industry. It is about reducing its size and increasing its quality. Harness racing in nsw is once again going to be the strongest in the country. It is about attracting quality from the other states. The last thing that harness racing needs is more substandard nsw bred horses racing for $2000 at bankstown. We can sit back and pick off the best interstate and NZ horses.

If you think harness racing needs hundreds of weekend warrior trainer drivers all fighting like seagulls to a chip to the dregs of the prize money left behind by the big few you are kidding it is the recipe for coruption.

The future of harness racing in nsw is to attract the best from interstate in horses, trainers, and drivers and cull the rest. It is big, expensive, unprofitable and difficult to regulate.

The arrival of Luke 12 months ago only highlighted just how weak the nsw trainers were. Others have seen this and will soon follow.

OK then. I know I said don’t expect me to reply, but I did not say I would not reply, so here goes just for you Cassie.

At no stage did I say any names that you mentioned could not compete. What I said was that Luke was out training and out driving everyone at the moment and that if they wanted to be competitive then they would have to lift there game. Please go back and read my post again and you will see this is what I said. Don’t go misrepresenting what I have said to suit yourself. I never take what anyone achieves lightly. I respect anyone who is willing to have a go in life and with the names you have mentioned, I hope one day that I can achieve some of the results that they have. But the game has changed again and people need to change with it otherwise they go stale. So having some flesh blood in Luke is going to be great for your industry.

Now I have no doubt that out of the names that you listed that a number of them will rise to the challenge that Luke has issued. But this will take a while for them to do. They will need to find better horses and start to change their training programs. It all takes time. The same thing happened in Qld when Vic Frost first moved up here. No one could beat his horses, but after a while stables started to close the gap on him until they caught up with him. What Vic did was to raise the bar and everyone had to lift there game to compete. Then McCarthys started to dominate the sport here, then it was the Dixons. What Luke is doing is raising the bar, now some people will respond to that challenge while others will sit on their hands and whinge that it is not fair. For those people I have no time for them. They can continue to sit in the corner and rock themselves to sleep while calling out Lukes name. What are they going to do when the next big name stable arrives in town. Cry poor again and say these people have no right to be there as you are doing to Luke, or is it a case that you can come but you have to lower your standard to match ours. Harness Racing is a business and no matter what business you are in, there will always be a couple of players who dominate.

As for your comment about the punter who was booing Luke. Well I guess you would have to have been there to see it, otherwise it seems a bit strange that a winning punter would be booing the horse he backed. How lucky for you he was standing right behind you. Almost seems to convenient to me. But as I said guess you had to be there.

Good luck to Luke. I hope he continues on in such a strong manner as the industry needs some positive stories to tell. It is a shame that some people are willing to try and bring him down to their low levels of achievements. But I guess that is why it is called the tall poppy syndrome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by murray green

Hi Old Frank . Did you know that the trainer of Black Caviar went for a positive swab 3 weeks before her last win for a drug that has a side effect of sudden death . He was fined $4000 . It seems to me that a person willing to risk that with his horse would do anything . The galloping industry portray him as a great trainer and horseman . Now thats "bloody tosh"

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Murray, I'm not wrapping Peter Moody, as you will clearly see my response was to Aussibreno who I mistook for being sarcastic.

Please keep my comments in the context that they were intended/responded too regarding AB's comments.

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Originally Posted by aussiebreno

Frank,
I apologise for getting you worked up. Sarcasm isn't potrayed the best through the internet. But rest assured I was being sarcastic!

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All good champion, apologies for not picking up on the sarcasim initially! At first I thought, this bloke can't be serious!!! Hahaha...

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Originally Posted by tiny

Murray thanks for your thoughts. But quite frankly you are very wrong. This process of restructure harness racing is going through at the moment is not about growing an already cash strapped industry. It is about reducing its size and increasing its quality. Harness racing in nsw is once again going to be the strongest in the country. It is about attracting quality from the other states. The last thing that harness racing needs is more substandard nsw bred horses racing for $2000 at bankstown. We can sit back and pick off the best interstate and NZ horses.

If you think harness racing needs hundreds of weekend warrior trainer drivers all fighting like seagulls to a chip to the dregs of the prize money left behind by the big few you are kidding it is the recipe for coruption.

The future of harness racing in nsw is to attract the best from interstate in horses, trainers, and drivers and cull the rest. It is big, expensive, unprofitable and difficult to regulate.

The arrival of Luke 12 months ago only highlighted just how weak the nsw trainers were. Others have seen this and will soon follow.

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What is it that you are proposing? No lower levels such as Bankstown $2k races? For a Vic like myself, I am assuming that is like saying NO $3k race meetings at Kilmore (I know they are generally more than this). Where is the community interest going to come from? Where are the future drivers going to come from?

Once again being a Vic can only think AFL for comparison (sorry). This would be like the AFL saying we will keep VFL (one level below AFL level which includes a couple of major country towns) but we do not need country football anymore.

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Originally Posted by aussiebreno

Cassie,
Your inference Lettucerocku must be on drugs because it won by a big margin whilst others only won by a short margin. Smoken Up only won the Inter by a short margin....

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SORRY I thought you refered to Smoken Up's Miracle Mile Wins when you was trying to ridicule my Dad's observation of horses that have had controversy over drugs.

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Originally Posted by tiny

Murray thanks for your thoughts. But quite frankly you are very wrong. This process of restructure harness racing is going through at the moment is not about growing an already cash strapped industry. It is about reducing its size and increasing its quality. Harness racing in nsw is once again going to be the strongest in the country. It is about attracting quality from the other states. The last thing that harness racing needs is more substandard nsw bred horses racing for $2000 at bankstown. We can sit back and pick off the best interstate and NZ horses.

If you think harness racing needs hundreds of weekend warrior trainer drivers all fighting like seagulls to a chip to the dregs of the prize money left behind by the big few you are kidding it is the recipe for coruption.

The future of harness racing in nsw is to attract the best from interstate in horses, trainers, and drivers and cull the rest. It is big, expensive, unprofitable and difficult to regulate.

The arrival of Luke 12 months ago only highlighted just how weak the nsw trainers were. Others have seen this and will soon follow.

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Hi Andy,
Some of your points are really interesting. If this is the strategy and thought process at the top end of town, then it's really sad that they think the industry should be owned by a few. Like Rugby League, it was built by the "working man/woman" in Australia and should be for everyone. What is wrong with hobby trainers? The likes of horses like Gamechanger are prepared by hobby trainers. Why are they not good for the sport?
Drivers. Where are you going to get your "top 10" with only 20 stables in operation? Why specifically are (in your opinion) the majority of drivers in Sydney poor?
Trainers. You've noted that LM has highlighted how weak NSW trainers are. Please give me an example of where NSW can improve? Paul Fitzpatrick won multiple trainers premierships and now can't get near LM. Does he qualify for your top 20? Well if he does, then I hope that the other 18 can do a little better because at his success rate against LM, they are all going broke. You're sweeping generalisations are an insult and wrong.
Attracting Interstate Trainers. This is unlikely to happen if LM keeps on going at this rate. Why haven't they already come with the increased prizemoney around the corner? It's really simple Andy. They know that they aren't going to beat LM.

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Originally Posted by candykisses

SORRY I thought you refered to Smoken Up's Miracle Mile Wins when you was trying to ridicule my Dad's observation of horses that have had controversy over drugs.

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When you was trying to be gangsta?
Oh, and you (or your father) was the one that bought up Smoken Ups positive in the ID....

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Originally Posted by aussiebreno

When you was trying to be gangsta?
Oh, and you (or your father) was the one that bought up Smoken Ups positive in the ID....

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Sweet Dreams Brendan I've had enough Laughs for one knight .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by racefair

Hi Andy,
Some of your points are really interesting. If this is the strategy and thought process at the top end of town, then it's really sad that they think the industry should be owned by a few. Like Rugby League, it was built by the "working man/woman" in Australia and should be for everyone. What is wrong with hobby trainers? The likes of horses like Gamechanger are prepared by hobby trainers. Why are they not good for the sport?
Drivers. Where are you going to get your "top 10" with only 20 stables in operation? Why specifically are (in your opinion) the majority of drivers in Sydney poor?
Trainers. You've noted that LM has highlighted how weak NSW trainers are. Please give me an example of where NSW can improve? Paul Fitzpatrick won multiple trainers premierships and now can't get near LM. Does he qualify for your top 20? Well if he does, then I hope that the other 18 can do a little better because at his success rate against LM, they are all going broke. You're sweeping generalisations are an insult and wrong.
Attracting Interstate Trainers. This is unlikely to happen if LM keeps on going at this rate. Why haven't they already come with the increased prizemoney around the corner? It's really simple Andy. They know that they aren't going to beat LM.

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spot on Jett,
there is no win for anyone in closed market.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aussiebreno

Danno,
You are right many strategies haven't been particularly successful, but is that the fault of the business gurus or is it just that harness racing is a damned hard sport to run.
I like your weakest link bit. Applies to just about everything imo. It's about strengthening the weakest link, not just getting rid of it.

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Thanks Brendan,
I do not pretend to have all the answers to everything, however, my observations over a considerable time ( about 40 years), the various people appointed by the various NSW Governments have ,in their each individual way, had an impact on the "game", some for the better ( though I can't remember who that was) and some for the worse.

there was a popular mantra in the business world a few years ago and it's still hanging around.....is this your core business? if not, let it go!. In some situations, at some times, that is definielty the way to go, but IMO it's an act of desperation... trying to salvage something is OK but what about the rest of your business?

I do not concurr that the harness racing prpoduct is that far gone we need to enclose it in a very small bedroom and hope it survives on love Our game isaving a bugger of a trot at the moment, but if the people who really believe in the sport can stick together ( which they have proven they can time and time again) we will come out the other side.


LET'S FOCUS ON THE POSITIVES....for the sake of our game.

Cheers

Dan

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Originally Posted by tiny

murray thanks for your thoughts. But quite frankly you are very wrong. This process of restructure harness racing is going through at the moment is not about growing an already cash strapped industry. It is about reducing its size and increasing its quality. Harness racing in nsw is once again going to be the strongest in the country. It is about attracting quality from the other states. The last thing that harness racing needs is more substandard nsw bred horses racing for $2000 at bankstown. We can sit back and pick off the best interstate and nz horses.

If you think harness racing needs hundreds of weekend warrior trainer drivers all fighting like seagulls to a chip to the dregs of the prize money left behind by the big few you are kidding it is the recipe for coruption.

The future of harness racing in nsw is to attract the best from interstate in horses, trainers, and drivers and cull the rest. It is big, expensive, unprofitable and difficult to regulate.

The arrival of luke 12 months ago only highlighted just how weak the nsw trainers were. Others have seen this and will soon follow.

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tiny you haven't got a clue what keep's harness racing going. Thank christ your not running the industry.

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Originally Posted by craig

OK then. I know I said don’t expect me to reply, but I did not say I would not reply, so here goes just for you Cassie.

At no stage did I say any names that you mentioned could not compete. What I said was that Luke was out training and out driving everyone at the moment and that if they wanted to be competitive then they would have to lift there game.what a cowardice retreat, you certainly did mention these trainers along with hundreds of other very good horseman when you said Luke was out training and driving everyone down there, What a pathetic insult to these champion trainers to suggest they would have to lift their game to compete with Luke Please go back and read my post again and you will see this is what I said. Don’t go misrepresenting what I have said to suit yourself. I never take what anyone achieves lightly. I respect anyone who is willing to have a go in life and with the names you have mentioned, [B]I hope one day that I can achieve some of the results that they have[/. Wait till I get my Violin out But the game has changed again and people need to change with it otherwise they go stale.[CNo one is arguing that the game has changed ,but they are questioning what has bought about the change OLOR="purple"][/COLOR] So having some flesh blood in Luke is going to be great for your industry.

Now I have no doubt that out of the names that you listed that a number of them will rise to the challenge that Luke has issued. But this will take a while for them to do.[COLOR What you mean they wont achieve these results as quick as Luke ?="purple"][/COLOR] They will need to find better horses and start to change their training programs. It all takes time[COLNot for some="purple"][/COLOR]. The same thing happened in Qld when Vic Frost first moved up here. No one could beat his horses, but after a while stables started to close the gap on him until they caught up with him. What Vic did was to raise the bar and everyone had to lift there game to compete. Then McCarthys started to dominate the sport here, then it was the Dixons. What Luke is doing is raising the bar, now some people will respond to that challenge while others will sit on their hands and whinge that it is not fair. For those people I have no time for them. They can continue to sit in the corner and rock themselves to sleep while calling out Lukes name. What are they going to do when the next big name stable arrives in town. Cry poor again and say these people have no right to be there as you are doing to Luke, or is it a case that you can come but you have to lower your standard to match ours. Harness Racing is a business and no matter what business you are in, [B]there will always be a couple of players who dominate.
[COLOR="purple"Totally agree the better pros with their better horses and bigger numbers will always rise to the top ,but it is when those that have always been at the top suddenly are no longer in the hunt that you have to ask why.][/COLOR]
As for your comment about the punter who was booing Luke. Well I guess you would have to have been there to see it, otherwise it seems a bit strange that a winning punter would be booing the horse he backed. How lucky for you he was standing right behind you. Almost seems to convenient to me I suppose I could have imagined it along with the 10 or so others that heard his rant. But as I said guess you had to be there. and I was

Good luck to Luke. I hope he continues on in such a strong manner as the industry needs some positive stories to tell. It is a shame that some people are willing to try and bring him down to their low levels of achievements.I think I"M gunna have to get the Violin out again. But I guess that is why it is called the tall poppy syndrome.

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[

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Originally Posted by candykisses

[

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Think of the 20 best(both in ability and in terms of grade) new horses that have reached NSW shores in recent times and you will proably find that Luke has received almost every one of them.

Franco Jamar and Arctic Fire for example both came to Luke straight after the Breeders Crown as Metro maidens. Blind freddy could have had them winning their first few starts. As it turns out, Arctic won 4 out of 7 and Jamar 7 out of 9.

Theres 11 races that I dare say could have been won by those 2 horses no matter who trained them

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Originally Posted by mightymo

Think of the 20 best(both in ability and in terms of grade) new horses that have reached NSW shores in recent times and you will proably find that Luke has received almost every one of them.

Franco Jamar and Arctic Fire for example both came to Luke straight after the Breeders Crown as Metro maidens. Blind freddy could have had them winning their first few starts. As it turns out, Arctic won 4 out of 7 and Jamar 7 out of 9.

Theres 11 races that I dare say could have been won by those 2 horses no matter who trained them

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Mate Arctic Fire was a plodder of the highest degree. :p :p just joking

Cassie.

Don’t you ever call me a coward again, or you will find out quick smart, how big bad and nasty this world is. At no stage did I slander any of the people you claimed I have. I pointed out a fact and that fact still exists. Luke is out training and out driving everyone in NSW at the moment. You then made the suggestion that it was an insult to these champion trainers that they would have to lift there game if they wanted to compete with Luke. Guess what, if they don’t lift there game then they won’t be able to compete against him and I don’t doubt for one second that some of them wont issue him with a challenge. Do you realise what made them top trainers in the first place. Trying to beat the trainer in front of them. That is what made them top grade trainers in the first place. Why don’t you go and get your trainers licence and take Luke on. Oh sorry is that too much of a challenge for you. Do you find it easier to slander him instead. How would you feel if you were to start winning races only to hop on here and see people calling you a cheat. Bet you would not like it at all. Next time you are at the races and you see Luke, why don’t you go up and front him and tell him what you are quite happy to say on here, while thinking you are well hidden behind your computer screen. I doubt very much that you will.

You basically have come onto this forum and accused Luke of been a cheat. Never once has Luke or when he was with his father did they have to front up to explain any kind of irregularity in a swab. Yet you persist on calling him a cheat by the constant accusations that you and a couple of other small minded individuals insist on making. Do yourself a big favour. Keep your mouth shut and your fingers off the keypad. Otherwise the next time you comment, you could find yourself in some legal bother. If you wish to continue to misrepresent what I have said don’t be surprised if you find legal action coming your way. I will not have you taking what I have said and changing it to suit yourself. You would be well advised to desist from doing this again, any time in the future.

It is sad to see where this forum has ended up. Have seen to many now, that start off well with people talking about the industry and discussing what is happening in it, only to have a few narrow minded people come along and think they have a right to make unfounded accusations about someone they don’t like. I believe it is time that this website closed down the entire forum section. It no longer is been used for what it was meant. It is now been used as a vehicle by some to show their true colours. These same people who pretend to care or love the industry are doing nothing more than giving it a black eye with there comments.

Craig What a lot of people on here are saying is what the general punters are saying his domination seems unreal.I for one dont know if he is a user or not.I have been told by people in the game that he is but that well maybe sour grapes or it may not, time will tell i guess.
But from my point of view anyone dominating like this is not good for the sport on top of the scandal that is being played out right now.The sport needs good publicity but just right now keeps getting bad.The smoken up saga hasnt helped at all and now the Raglan saga.
I have been involved in some way for more time than i wish to remember but have never been closer to just walking away as feel it is a losing battle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barney

Craig What a lot of people on here are saying is what the general punters are saying his domination seems unreal.I for one dont know if he is a user or not.I have been told by people in the game that he is but that well maybe sour grapes or it may not, time will tell i guess.
But from my point of view anyone dominating like this is not good for the sport on top of the scandal that is being played out right now.The sport needs good publicity but just right now keeps getting bad.The smoken up saga hasnt helped at all and now the Raglan saga.
I have been involved in some way for more time than i wish to remember but have never been closer to just walking away as feel it is a losing battle.

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Barney your wasting your time

Craig is so in love with Luke he can't believe how anyone could possibly think he isn't squeeky clean
He would rather believe that very good and premiership winning trainers all of a sudden have forgot how to train horses .
He want's to blame every Trainer and Driver in NSW for falling behind rather than look at how one man has leaped forward.
So anyone who dares to have suspicions about his Luke better watch out or they will find out how bad and nasty this world can be (what a hero)
Last time I checked Craig Australia was a free country and every one is entitled to their opinion , and just because it differs from yours does not give you the right to tell me or anyone to keep their mouth shut , as for the coward remark ,IF THE SHOE FITS

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Originally Posted by craig

Cassie.

Don’t you ever call me a coward again, or you will find out quick smart, how big bad and nasty this world is. At no stage did I slander any of the people you claimed I have. I pointed out a fact and that fact still exists. Luke is out training and out driving everyone in NSW at the moment. You then made the suggestion that it was an insult to these champion trainers that they would have to lift there game if they wanted to compete with Luke. Guess what, if they don’t lift there game then they won’t be able to compete against him and I don’t doubt for one second that some of them wont issue him with a challenge. Do you realise what made them top trainers in the first place. Trying to beat the trainer in front of them. That is what made them top grade trainers in the first place. Why don’t you go and get your trainers licence and take Luke on. Oh sorry is that too much of a challenge for you. Do you find it easier to slander him instead. How would you feel if you were to start winning races only to hop on here and see people calling you a cheat. Bet you would not like it at all. Next time you are at the races and you see Luke, why don’t you go up and front him and tell him what you are quite happy to say on here, while thinking you are well hidden behind your computer screen. I doubt very much that you will.

You basically have come onto this forum and accused Luke of been a cheat. Never once has Luke or when he was with his father did they have to front up to explain any kind of irregularity in a swab. Yet you persist on calling him a cheat by the constant accusations that you and a couple of other small minded individuals insist on making. Do yourself a big favour. Keep your mouth shut and your fingers off the keypad. Otherwise the next time you comment, you could find yourself in some legal bother. If you wish to continue to misrepresent what I have said don’t be surprised if you find legal action coming your way. I will not have you taking what I have said and changing it to suit yourself. You would be well advised to desist from doing this again, any time in the future.

It is sad to see where this forum has ended up. Have seen to many now, that start off well with people talking about the industry and discussing what is happening in it, only to have a few narrow minded people come along and think they have a right to make unfounded accusations about someone they don’t like. I believe it is time that this website closed down the entire forum section. It no longer is been used for what it was meant. It is now been used as a vehicle by some to show their true colours. These same people who pretend to care or love the industry are doing nothing more than giving it a black eye with there comments.

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Hmmm. Legal action threatened on a forum. Maybe you are not suited to forum banter Craig but then again maybe such threats are one of the disadvantages of using our real names ie Dumbo calling Pinhead an Idiot cannot be taken seriously but John calling Betty a ..... can. Maybe this is why the old Vic harness racing forum did not last very long - legal threats (Was it really necessary Craig?)

craig craig craig . What a goose . Luke gets his horses going amazingly well . I think we should call him Harry Potter . He waves his wand over them and they find 30 lengths . If he is Harry , that makes you Dobby , his protector

What does surprise me and i may have missed some but notice that the Douglas stable from Victoria dont seem to travel to Menangle like they did to Harold park.Would think with bigger prizemoney they would be chasing it.

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Originally Posted by barney

What does surprise me and i may have missed some but notice that the Douglas stable from Victoria dont seem to travel to Menangle like they did to Harold park.Would think with bigger prizemoney they would be chasing it.

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A number of races for the first few weeks of the new increased prizemoney, have required horses to be domiciled in NSW for at least 28 days

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barney

Craig What a lot of people on here are saying is what the general punters are saying his domination seems unreal.I for one dont know if he is a user or not.I have been told by people in the game that he is but that well maybe sour grapes or it may not, time will tell i guess.
But from my point of view anyone dominating like this is not good for the sport on top of the scandal that is being played out right now.The sport needs good publicity but just right now keeps getting bad.The smoken up saga hasnt helped at all and now the Raglan saga.
I have been involved in some way for more time than i wish to remember but have never been closer to just walking away as feel it is a losing battle.

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Barney what would you have HRNSW do to stop this so called domination then ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by candykisses

Barney your wasting your time

Craig is so in love with Luke he can't believe how anyone could possibly think he isn't squeeky clean
He would rather believe that very good and premiership winning trainers all of a sudden have forgot how to train horses .
He want's to blame every Trainer and Driver in NSW for falling behind rather than look at how one man has leaped forward.
So anyone who dares to have suspicions about his Luke better watch out or they will find out how bad and nasty this world can be (what a hero)
Last time I checked Craig Australia was a free country and every one is entitled to their opinion , and just because it differs from yours does not give you the right to tell me or anyone to keep their mouth shut , as for the coward remark ,IF THE SHOE FITS

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Wow, this is the first one I have replied to, I could not help myself.Cassie, Australia is a free country, but you still need to have proof beyond reasonabledoubt to accuse, and to actually convict here also. Do you have this, hardevidence and proof to back up your claims that LM may be using 'alternate'methods?

I used to go to the races in QLD all the time, and I watched LM and hisfather bring there team of horses thru the ranks, and succeed. I see nothingwrong with this. He has also been given some good horses also, another reason.

As for Craig's comment about other trainers improving their training, yesthey will have to. They will also need to start to look at the quality of horsethat they send around. it is a round trip, and it goes on all the time. You seeit in every state, all the time .. I mean do you think that these trainerstrain the same way today as they did 10 year ago> of course not!.. why not,because they improved on it, they changed the style of racing and the type ofhorse.

More to the point of being so nasty to another forum member, Are you upsetthat one person is having success?? Or upset that things arent going your way,i notice you’re a stable hand, is this why your so upset, is your boss upsetthat there horses are not the same quality at this stage, and still have alittle bit of improving to do to do the times?

Messenger and Barney, true that there is banter, but cassie i think fromreading this forum over stepped the mark and went into personal attacking. Iwould say Craig has the right to retaliate. And quite frankly, if A personwrote a letter to me personally, or posted comments mentioning me, and thoseactions in a public paper, legal action would be forthcoming. Yes the Vic forumdid not last, nor did the one on harness dot org?? I recall that they wereattacking a commentator I think…Anyway, it seems that the times when one had tohave proof before making allagations has long gone. But then so does the needto believe and listen to it.

It seems simple to me. A person, has moved states, come with fresh horses,and given some good horses, using tried and tru training fashions and new ones.Is producing winners. Its no mystery.

From a puntting point of view, I like it. I know the form, I know that theyare there to win, I know my odds are good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg Hando

Barney what would you have HRNSW do to stop this so called domination then ?

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Nothing they can do i guess but still not good for the sport and anyone who argues it is is deluding themselves and dont talk to the average punter who now avoid Harness like a plague.

No way in the world was Mccarthy senior dominating up here before Luke came back from America, i may be wrong but dont thinks so the Mccarthys came from Nsw to Queensland.

Has anyone thought about Simulated High Altitude Training. Noel Daley uses it and i think Luke used to work for him in the states.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drivemecrazy

Wow, this is the first one I have replied to, I could not help myself.Cassie, Australia is a free country, but you still need to have proof beyond reasonabledoubt to accuse, and to actually convict here also. Do you have this, hardevidence and proof to back up your claims that LM may be using 'alternate'methods?

I used to go to the races in QLD all the time, and I watched LM and hisfather bring there team of horses thru the ranks, and succeed. I see nothingwrong with this. He has also been given some good horses also, another reason.

As for Craig's comment about other trainers improving their training, yesthey will have to. They will also need to start to look at the quality of horsethat they send around. it is a round trip, and it goes on all the time. You seeit in every state, all the time .. I mean do you think that these trainerstrain the same way today as they did 10 year ago> of course not!.. why not,because they improved on it, they changed the style of racing and the type ofhorse.

More to the point of being so nasty to another forum member, Are you upsetthat one person is having success?? Or upset that things arent going your way,i notice you’re a stable hand, is this why your so upset, is your boss upsetthat there horses are not the same quality at this stage, and still have alittle bit of improving to do to do the times?

Messenger and Barney, true that there is banter, but cassie i think fromreading this forum over stepped the mark and went into personal attacking. Iwould say Craig has the right to retaliate. And quite frankly, if A personwrote a letter to me personally, or posted comments mentioning me, and thoseactions in a public paper, legal action would be forthcoming. Yes the Vic forumdid not last, nor did the one on harness dot org?? I recall that they wereattacking a commentator I think…Anyway, it seems that the times when one had tohave proof before making allagations has long gone. But then so does the needto believe and listen to it.

It seems simple to me. A person, has moved states, come with fresh horses,and given some good horses, using tried and tru training fashions and new ones.Is producing winners. Its no mystery.

From a puntting point of view, I like it. I know the form, I know that theyare there to win, I know my odds are good.

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Would you be so kind to show me any were in my post were I have accused any one of anything .
If you would like to get off your high horse and read what I have said you will find that I have simply expressed my and many others view that what we are seeing from most of lukes horses is improvement that it very hard to explain.
Tazmin you say you used to go to the trots up there and see Luke and his dad train winners , can you honestly say you ever saw there horses improve 50 to 100 mtrs in a matter of weeks and watch them win by as far and with the ease that some of these are( do your self a favour and watch letusrocku on sat night)

Now people who have been around a while and know you can't improve horses that much with physical training have a right to have their suspicions whether a few died in the wool luke fan's like your self and Craig like it or not.
As has been pointed out many times and I have admitted I have no proof of any wrong doing , all I can go on is common sense and History.
History is full of spectactular improved performances that have proven to be Drug related , but I can not recall many that have occurred with out them, you might like to list them for me and for every one you come up with i'll give you 5 that were.

Craig wanted to open his big mouth and slander every trainer and driver in NSW by saying they were being out trained and driven by Luke ,but when I mentioned some of the names he was belittling he went to water with the old " I never mentioned those people line " witch I thought was a cowardice retreat from a pathetic statement. ( and his next post did nothing to alter my opinion)
Here you are sticking up for a brave Man that would threaten some one with "you'll find out how bad and nasty this world is" ,which makes you as bad as he is.Then you have the gall to accuse me of personal attacks .

As for the rest of your post about good horses trained by old and new methods, I would love to think your right.

Hi Cassie
I've enjoyed reading your posts and it's good to have you on this forum. I hope that you don't get involved in any personal stuff or flaming because from what I have seen that usually ends in people disappearing from the discussion, which would be a shame in your case. This is an emotive issue in some respects but lets all stick to the issue and try to leave the personal stuff to one side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

Hi Cassie
I've enjoyed reading your posts and it's good to have you on this forum. I hope that you don't get involved in any personal stuff or flaming because from what I have seen that usually ends in people disappearing from the discussion, which would be a shame in your case. This is an emotive issue in some respects but lets all stick to the issue and try to leave the personal stuff to one side.

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Hi William
Thank you for the advice, I thought my post was pretty tame compared to the one I read from aussibrenno to Zipzap and I see he is still with us.

Cheers Cassie

I was just reading the NSW and VIC websites and the result's off them and came up with
Luke Mac -35.9 % W/S state wide and 30% Metro
Kerryn Manning - 35.45% State wide
Shane Cramp -37.50 % State wide
Dean Braun - 36.70% State wide
If these are correct where is the domination we are led to believe i might be slow on the uptake but i fail to see it as that bad from these figure's when compared to our closest neighbour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drivemecrazy

Wow, this is the first one I have replied to, I could not help myself.Cassie, Australia is a free country, but you still need to have proof beyond reasonabledoubt to accuse, and to actually convict here also. Do you have this, hardevidence and proof to back up your claims that LM may be using 'alternate'methods?

I used to go to the races in QLD all the time, and I watched LM and hisfather bring there team of horses thru the ranks, and succeed. I see nothingwrong with this. He has also been given some good horses also, another reason.

As for Craig's comment about other trainers improving their training, yesthey will have to. They will also need to start to look at the quality of horsethat they send around. it is a round trip, and it goes on all the time. You seeit in every state, all the time .. I mean do you think that these trainerstrain the same way today as they did 10 year ago> of course not!.. why not,because they improved on it, they changed the style of racing and the type ofhorse.

More to the point of being so nasty to another forum member, Are you upsetthat one person is having success?? Or upset that things arent going your way,i notice you’re a stable hand, is this why your so upset, is your boss upsetthat there horses are not the same quality at this stage, and still have alittle bit of improving to do to do the times?

Messenger and Barney, true that there is banter, but cassie i think fromreading this forum over stepped the mark and went into personal attacking. Iwould say Craig has the right to retaliate. And quite frankly, if A personwrote a letter to me personally, or posted comments mentioning me, and thoseactions in a public paper, legal action would be forthcoming. Yes the Vic forumdid not last, nor did the one on harness dot org?? I recall that they wereattacking a commentator I think…Anyway, it seems that the times when one had tohave proof before making allagations has long gone. But then so does the needto believe and listen to it.

It seems simple to me. A person, has moved states, come with fresh horses,and given some good horses, using tried and tru training fashions and new ones.Is producing winners. Its no mystery.

From a puntting point of view, I like it. I know the form, I know that theyare there to win, I know my odds are good.

---

Have we got some drama queens all of a sudden or what. EVERYONE read post 62 again then read 59 again - which it was in response to. WTF would require someone to start threatening legal action. Please quote the relevant parts if you find them because they would seem to be nothing more than banter to me - yes BANTER

What do we put down the run by Mr feelgood and i wonder what luke said to John when he come up 3 wide.

Luke could have cotrolled that race if his dad didn't come 3 wide, any other horse and he would have parked it 3 wide. John made the race for Mightyquinn. Mr Feelgood wouldn't of won even if he kept the death anyway, went average. Horse in front Dasher V C went massive would of beat Mr Feelgood, home in 26.9, you would have to consider yourself unlucky to get beat if you are involved in that horse, not much more you can do to win a race.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg Hando

I was just reading the NSW and VIC websites and the result's off them and came up with
Luke Mac -35.9 % W/S state wide and 30% Metro
Kerryn Manning - 35.45% State wide
Shane Cramp -37.50 % State wide
Dean Braun - 36.70% State wide
If these are correct where is the domination we are led to believe i might be slow on the uptake but i fail to see it as that bad from these figure's when compared to our closest neighbour.

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Oh Greg,Thanku!!!!!
Aussiebrenno initially raised the Kerryn stat but funny enough the LM knockers who hang a man without a trial, had NO comment on that.
Thanku for providing real proof stats from that website, maybe, but unlikely, some may start to think this apparent domination does actually stem from as Craig put it so well, the Tall Poppy Syndrome.
We now need a thread for each of the above successful Trainers for the LM haters to accuse them of being drug cheats.

Also by the way would love to get a link put on here to the actual races, horses names and dates on the harness.org website where we can all b shown proof of horses who have recently improved by "50-100metres in a matter of a few weeks", apparently Cassie knows examples of this....................