And with good reason. One can only hope SAM sends ALL his frozen swabs to Hong Kong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Frank
Printable View
And with good reason. One can only hope SAM sends ALL his frozen swabs to Hong Kong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Frank
If that is the case Mach Wiper should've tested positive to Boldenone when winning two races in succession at Menangle a couple of weeks prior to the Newcastle Cup, and then potentially again when he won the Goulburn Cup 6 or so weeks later. I can't see how that statement can be accurate or used as a defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Parker
The ironic thing here is that if/when Mach Wiper get disqualified from the Newcastle Cup his stablemate Roman Stride will be declared the winner, so it's still a victory to team McCarthy.
Yes I do have horses with Luke but most importantly I am a believer in justice.
Most of you Luke haters obviously have not done your research on Boldenone.
Firstly and most importantly, it has a VERY long periods within which it remains in a horses system. At least 3 months and up to 9 months. Speak to any vet(I have spoken to 2) or read up on the internet.
How then do you explain the fact that Mach Wiper tested negative 2 weeks either side of the positive reading.??
Secondly, Boldenone is a natural substance which often occurs in stallions. Mach Wiper just happens to be a stallion
Thirdly, the testing for Boldenone is widely recognised as being very difficult and the same horse can have vastly different levels recorded on the same day.
In a nutshell, this is something that you Luke haters need to read up on as i think you will find that the scientific evidence will prove that there is no cheating involved...
Very costly exercise to send them all to Hong Kong and thats probably why the positive has not been until now.
What should be done though now is since a positive to steroids has been detected all frozen McCarthy swabs should be sent and billed to the inquiry and ultimately the outcome.
Steroids should not be tolerated in any sport.......
If it was a TCo2 then it would be thrown into the pile with the other 400 recently.
Yeah TC02 is also a natural substance in horses.......foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymo
Masking agents are also used.......
Not to mention IT IS A STEROID AND YOU DONT TAKE YOUR HORSES TO THE RACES IF YOU HAVE USED IT.
He is a cheat and its now official..........................
Where do you think he got his stuff from????????
Oh SIR, Sir....Pick me, I know the answer to this one. If I say it, this post will go BOOMQuote:
Originally Posted by Stonie
DONT SAY IT.......This thread has the potential to be the biggest ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by TSW
I think a few of you posters on here need to step back from your keyboard and take a few deep breaths, for f... sake what's happened to giving a bloke a fair go to proven guilty. Most of you posters who confess to being in or involved in horses should know better, I also know that the mods should not only be removing bad posts but banning you from here. Good Luck
Thanks Mick........Now go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Itisi
"Justice" appears to be a concept foreign to many of the self proclaimed "experts" posting here !Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymo
We must consider the advertisers who will be demanding to have their products posted on this topicQuote:
Originally Posted by Stonie
You have the Law and the Legal System with all it's points of law and other jibberish rewarding Thieves, murderers and other types of criminals with one form of jargon or another and blaming their actions on bad childhoods or bed wetting etc ............. Most here are dealing out Natural Justice. Remember the duck quote earlierQuote:
Originally Posted by Itisi
I'm a little ambivalent on weather steroids should be banned and I'm not convinced they are not being used still. Back in the 70's & 80's they were a basic part of a trainers conditioning of the horse having great value as a therapeutic treatment. Everybody was using them. I had a cupboard full;I could rattle off 8 different products. Steroids became a dirty word , mentioned in the same category as heroin and I think this came about through the bad publicity of steroid abuse in gyms. Boldenone alone is not going to be a huge performance enhancer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bathurst bulldog
Did Luke steal your lunch money at school Bulldog? You seem very brave behind your keyboard with your 3 posts?
I know every is excited about this,but be careful, as mightymo has stated Boldernone is a natural substance in stallions. I am sure Luke will have plenty of evidence to support this and will be found to be not guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymo
No idea what to make of this yet. If I found out my trainer was cheating I would be absolutely devestated.
Tell me to go away you ignorant p.... They do test for it here in the first place,then when bells ring they send the B sample to Hong Kong for confirmation. If your so keen to hang him you offer to send whatever you think they have got in some freezer somewhere. Sorry mate but you really have no idea what's going on and all you are doing is running with the thread. If you are so switch on please try and find out why they would have frozen swabs of Mcarthys and where the freezer is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonie
Mick they have frozen swabs from everyoneQuote:
Originally Posted by Itisi
Thats what they say, but how many trainers been caught with a frozen swab. I was pointing out to stonie that it's the B sample they send of after getting a reading on the A sample. They would need a bloody big freezer to keep all these swabs But believe what you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by William
I just came home from work and WOW the rumours were spot on . I suppose the Luke supporters will try to use the Force and come up with excuses . You guys impress me with your loyalty . I'm not going to knock Luke but he will still win the premiership and won't the presentation night have its uncomfortable moments . Looking at the facts from another side . There hasn't been a positive to this steroid for years and all of a sudden we have one and , if rumours are right , another from a close friend . That just doesn't add up . I hope the supporters don't try and justify this IF he is found guilty . If he is lets hope he's man enough to fess up .
I was hoping that the roumor mill had got this one wrong. LM Had (has) the harness world at his feet and was bringing professionalism to NSW that was badly needed. However...
Not sure about this part - (natural substance)Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymo
These would suggest a synthetic version is available.
http://stablemade.com/hproducts/drugs/Equipoise.htm
This was just one of many sites that stated Boldenone Undecylenate is a synthetic. A synthetic actually developed to be an injectable.
or
http://www.steroid.com/Equipoise.php
"Equipoise was actually created while attempting to make a product which would be be a long acting injectable d-bol (Methandrostenolone).
Feel free to correct me if evidence says im wrong
Norman
I need to correct you! :):)
From:
http://www.losalamitos.com/pdfs/chrb/CHRBAdvisories.pdf
"Threshold levels have been established for testosterone, boldenone, nandrolone, and
stanzolol. The first three are naturally occurring, also known as endogenous,
in the horse. Testosterone is present in intact males, gelded males, and
fillies. Nandrolone and boldenone are naturally occurring in non-gelded
males"
Out of all the winners he's had over the last 12 months, why has he had only 1 positve?
Equipoise is the brand name for the steroid hormone boldenone, a product used mostly in cows and horses to improve their lean body mass. Equipoise has a number of uses for bodybuilders and athletes, from stimulating EPO (erythropoietin) production to increase the number of red blood cells (thereby increasing endurance), to gaining muscle mass easily (indirectly by increasing the appetite), to allowing a user to "cut" bodyweight by leaning out the muscle tissue.
In boldenone is an interesting property - it stimulates the release of erythropoietin in the kidneys, which eventually leads to an increase in the number of red blood cells.
Interesting reading........also boldenone is the preferred steroid chosen by the endurance athlete.
Studies done on young horses show that natural levels can not be detected unless injected. Not sure about older horses.
Have edited (although all the information i can find talks about boldenone Undecylenate being similar to the natural steroid Testosterone), but this paragraph from the same is important and should not be ignored: http://www.losalamitos.com/pdfs/chrb/CHRBAdvisories.pdf
The CHRB’s anabolic steroid regulations are modified from the RMTC model rules,
which in turn are based on long established international regulations for anabolic steroids.
Testosterone, nandrolone, and boldenone are endogenous anabolic steroids. Endogenous means
they occur naturally. The normal levels of these endogenous anabolic steroids have been well
established in the horses for urine and the regulatory threshold levels for a violation have a wide
safety margin. Horses that have not been administered anabolic steroids are not in danger of a
positive. However, boldenone is manufactured as Equipoise®; nandrolone is manufactured as
Durabolin®; and testosterone is manufactured as generic testosterone.
Also, from the article "Normal Steroid Levels in Racehorses"
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle....#ixzz1mFxE3uyr
Boldenone was not detected in any horses. Moeller noted that any boldenone level is highly suggestive of steroid administration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanS
Harvey and Norman,Quote:
Norman
I need to correct you! :):)
From:
http://www.losalamitos.com/pdfs/chrb/CHRBAdvisories.pdf
"Threshold levels have been established for testosterone, boldenone, nandrolone, and
stanzolol. The first three are naturally occurring, also known as endogenous,
in the horse. Testosterone is present in intact males, gelded males, and
fillies. Nandrolone and boldenone are naturally occurring in non-gelded
males"
You guys have both sourced your data from the same place but end up with competing arguments???
I would like to state for the record, I have never bought into the LM debate, despite having my own opinions which are based on observations only and that is why my opinions have not been aired on this forum, 'cos their based on observations only.
Now back to the inconsistencies with the opinions on the data.. Question... are you BOTH telling the whole truth?? or did one of you miss a bit of vital information?
once again I have my suspicions.....:) :) :)
wrote someting then changed my mind
I urge you to contact your vet/s like i did(not Luke's vets, but vets I know and use around the country) and ask them questionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Danno
I cant believe some of the postings on here. I was always under the impression that you were innocent until proven guilty but sadly not in Australia. Just from an outside prospective it would seem far from an open and shut case. Boldenone remains in the body a long time and for the horse in question to race either side of the *POSTIVE* and not have further positives tests for Boldenone raises serious questions. What would trigger a higher reading on one occassion and not on the others. Is it possible to have a postive one time and negative the next when Boldenone is in your system. I will leave that to the experts to fathom but what I wont do is condem someone until all the facts have been heard in the approiate forum. Once all the information is out in the public domain , I will then be able to make an informed decision on the rights and wrongs of this case. To do so before then is to do so from a position of ignorance.
Based on all that has been written here your question on how it can be high one week and normal the next is valid. It was mentioned on TV last night that the reading could be as high as 4 times the limit, thats big and you would think not natural. With all the overseas work done to create stimulates (their always ahead of the officials) could there be a NEW formula available which is not supposed to be long lasting. Don't know myself but something doesn't seem right on what we read. This is going to be very interesting to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv Strangman
I for one dont know but as i posted in post 11 on this thread there is a thing called a masking agent which disguises the drugs.Whether this is the case or not time will tell but HE has had a positive from 2 places so is guilty as it is a trainers duty to present a horse at the races drug free and this horse on this occasion wasnt.
I'm sorry, your saying 'HE' as you put it, I assume you mean McCarthy now has a 2nd positive? If so, where, or please forgive me upfront for having missed it somewhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
Has there been an announcement?
What i meant was that the swab has been analysed by 2 labs and both positive so no mistake the horse returned a positive and i repeat it is the trainers responsibility to present a horse to the races drug free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Frank
If he is innocent of charge i hope he gets out of it but as it looks he isnt and must be dealt with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
No probs, mistook your original comments.
Sorry to come into this so late i've been taking a well earned break in Thailand and trying to resist the temptation to look on the net.
This swab is clearly an error at the lab or in the collection of the swab. As has been previously stated bolderone is long lasting and there is no way that a horse can test negative shortly before and shortly after and have a positive in between.
One must question HRNSW's decision to make this information public before holding further investigations to determine where the error has been made. This will clearly damage Luke's image and is going to cost him plenty to defend.
I always thought he always brought so much of what was lacking in harness racing and with some clever marketing could have been better used as an ambassador of the sport.
Luke has been subjected to unfair treatment since he moved to NSW and if it was in a workplace you would call it harassment Harness stewards have spent entire days camped at his stables before race meetings. No other trainer in history has had this level of scrutiny placed on them.
So witch hunt yields results Stewards get there man for now. The court of public opinion has the bloke hung already and tall poppy syndrome remains a pretty ugly reflection of humanity.
Thanks for sorting that out Andy. Obviously an error in the swabbing procedure indeed. He must be innocent because he is so good for the game. I will email the stewards and let them know.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiny
No need William I've already sent an email to Sam Nati. But thanks for the offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiny
At a quick glance I thought your name read Andy McCarthy next to your post there.....
I guess the next trainer who's name should be announced shortly with another Boldenone positive was at the mercy of a lab error or poor swabbing procedures as well.
Any chance of due process here?Quote:
Originally Posted by tiny