He must get time for that drive. You can't push out that hard, it's unsafe.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobrad
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He must get time for that drive. You can't push out that hard, it's unsafe.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobrad
That was bad . Dirty driving . IMO .Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobrad
Guys, he's entitled ( and to a certain extent expected) to try and get his horse out and give it a chance, the fact was the horse outside him was travelling just as strong/weak as his own and thats why he didn't succeed.
There was nothing dangerous or foul about it. Admitedly,it didn't LOOK pretty, but safe enough IMO.
If that was my horse and he didn't at least have a crack at getting out he'd be sacked, either on suspicion or for incompetence, he could take his pick.
Cheers,
Dan
Dan would you still be of that opinion if he brings someone down or lets say brings your horse downQuote:
Originally Posted by Danno
No Bailey, thats the point I was making, it looked ugly but look closely, the horses were head to head, that is not going to bring any one down mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by p plater
If you want to see a bad drive watch Has the Answers tonight, absolutely butchered!!!! now there is a drive deserving of time on the sidelines.!!!
The horse is not at his best over 2500m, so you cook him out of the gate, go to the front and keep on reeling off sub 30 quarters with NO PRESSURE from anywhere until the tank runs dry 500 metres out. Absolutely bloody disgraceful. And no guys I didn't back him, I'm just bewildered why someone would do that to a horse of such known quantites as Has The Answers.
I guess he has ONE defence and IMO only ONE....It's how the horse is always driven / only way the horse races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
I don't normally comment directly on specific drive but yes a real doozie.!!!!!
I think you should be having a shot at the trainer who consistently gives these instructions,that said,I think it's his perogative even if to the rest of the world they appear ridiculous.
See below. Wonder if the stewards will do as they warned...
Late report from inquiry conducted at Gloucester Park Friday 3 February 2012.
Stewards concluded an inquiry into the tactics adopted by Kyle Harper (HAS THE ANSWERS) in the early and middle stages of Race 8 the Yes Loans Fremantle Pacing MS Cup (2906m) in particular his reason for after gaining the lead in the early stages, not taking the opportunity to obtain a trailing position behind the favoured MR FEELGOOD USA early or DASHER VC NZ in the middle stages. He explained that he had been instructed to retain the lead despite expressing his opinion to Trainer Tony Svilicich that he would be better taking a trailing position rather than be pressured.
Mr Svilicich confirmed the instructions issued and added that he was reluctant to have the gelding driven from a trailing position as it had a tendency to pull when covered. When questioned on the fact that the gelding had won from a trailing position the previous week when it had appeared to race tractably, he explained that the gelding had been prepared differently for that event after drawing the back line. When drawn the front it was always his intention to make use of the gelding’s early speed to endeavour to lead which then made it difficult for it to be restrained to a trailing position.
Stewards advised Mr Svilicich that in their opinion the gelding, which had previously demonstrated that it was not suited to racing over longer distances when pressured, should be driven differently in such events. In future, if they were of the opinion that he had issued unrealistic instructions to a driver, action would be taken against his licence.
Stewards dictating tactics? I don't think so !
Stewards are well within their authority to issue such a warning. they have done it many times. If they believe that the driver is not giving the horse the best chance in a race they can take direct action against the driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenem
If they determine that the trainer's instructions are contrary to giving the horse the best chance ina race they can act against the trainer.
Where do you stop ? How many times (a meeting) have you said to yourself "driver X should have done this or shouldn't have done that ?" I think it's totally unreasonable for anyone other than connections to decide how a horse should be driven.
Yeah precisely this. I mean if a trainer has two stablemates in the race one can be driven however they like to set it up for the other. Trainers decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenem
*sarcasm*
Maybe the Chief Steward should issue a set of instructions before each race.These could even be published alongside the form guide.Surely you are not suggesting that "team driving" actaually goes on ?
(more sarcasm)
Hey Guys, there is a rule that states the driver must give his horse every chance......there is NOT a rule that says the driver must obey driving instructions.
The driver should be in strife with the stipes, and maybe the trainer, but definitley the driver , if he hasn't got the stuff to tell the trainer he won't butcher it, then don't drive it, it's not compulsory to accept a drive!
To me, this is why you have drivers...for people who can't do it themselves.
One thing for sure......Has The Answers is a great horse!......he gets bottomed out from the start more often than not.......leads from any gate...this would normally take its toll over time to be able to back-up run after run..........A month or so ago I thought the horse was flat and then he came out and won the Consolation of the WA Pacing Cup over 2500....but he had a nice 32 quarter at the beginning of the last mile and sprinted home in 56.8........I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT "BLIND HARRY" WOULD KNOW YOU GIVE YOUR HORSE AS EASY A RUN AS POSSIBLE WHEN LEADING.....ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU BURN OUT OF THE GATE........EVEN SMOKEN UP DOESN'T EMPTY THE TANK UNLESS HE HAS TOO!........LAST NIGHT WAS LIKE HE WAS THE PACESETTER IN A WORLD RECORD ATTEMPT.........HE BROKE 30 FOR HIS FIRST 2 QUARTERS OF THE MILE, ONLY SMOKEN UP BROKE A QUARTER IN LESS THAN 30 OF ALL THE HEATS LAST NIGHT.......AFTER THE WARNING GIVEN A COUPLE OF WEEKS BY THE STEWARDS, PRIOR TO LAST NIGHT RACE ABOUT DRIVING THIS WAY......WHAT ARE THE STEWARDS GOING TO DO???????????? LET'S WAIT FOR THE STEWARDS REPORT, UNLESS SOMEONE HAS ALREADY HEARD!!!!!!!
THE TRAINER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TACTICS GIVEN TO HIS DRIVER, UNLESS HE SAYS I'LL LEAVE IT TO YOU......WHAT'S THE POINT!!!
I was at Gloucester Park last night. You guys querying the Has The Answers drive are missing the obvious. A few of us were talking about it before the race and loaded up on Mr Feelgood, saved on Cromac Johnny and hit the Quinella. Missed the Tri : (
Mysta Magical Mach was on the precipice on gaining a start "IF" Dasher VC punctured. Who trains MMM and HTA ? It was a carbon copy of the previous clash where they "hooked up". I was surprised Lewis fell for it but if you'd heard the roasting he copped from the locals after his drive on Crombie, I guess he had no choice.
A rough couple of days for A C Lewis.
Bewildering drive from C.Lewis; Crombie went to the line full of running. Maybe he wanted to avoid a speed duel with AR with the final next week. Certainly had a fairly easy run and if there was a real smoky for the final Crombie could be the one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Parker
Gday Dan, My internets playing up so just quickly. His drive is without doubt an act of selfish, bullying that displays no respect for his rivals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Go back to Menangle 28/1 Race 7 and watch Mitch Reese try to get off the pegs. Unsuccessful with his jostling he has to wait until the run comes. His drive was patient, competitive and sporting. He showed respect for his rivals. One bloke applies reasonable pressure, the other bloke thinks its Ok to drive straight into your rival after hooking out with the right rein.
G'day Brad,Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobrad
like everyone else mate you're entitled to your opinion. I think, as I said, it was ugly but not dangerous. I have served that up and copped it plenty of times from people who know how to do it safely with no problems, it's when you get idiots trying it and don't know when and where it's unsafe that you run into problems and someone ends up on the deck.
as i've stated earlier I'm neither a fan nor a detractor of GH Jnr, but that's twice in the last couple of weeks we've seen him trying to push clear and so far he's displayed in my opinion he knows how to do it safely, many do not.
Cheers,
Dan.
PS you'll have me by the short and curlies if he decks someone pushing out...stay tuned.LOL.
Hey Dan
It seems to me that you know from experience. Obviously there is a push out rule in Oz. Apparently in the last 600 metres is that right. Here it is last 1000metres.
Is that right. Can you tell me do you have an easing down rule Y/n...?
Are these rules australia wide or are your rules state only???
Just watched that race. Firstly, wasn't it great to see Bill Horns and Village Kids colours going around? Secondly . G. Hall Jnr, in my opinion is teflon coated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
G'day Tony,Quote:
Originally Posted by teecee
we've had a push out rule in NSW for over twenty years. it started out being allowed in the last lap and a quarter ( entering the home straight with one lap to go regardless of the circumference of the track) and a few years ago they changed it to a candy pole marker typically situated in the back straight usually about 600m out. As far as i know that rule applies in all states and an "ease out rule' other than this one does not exist.
I have only ever been in the game as a hobby but started race driving as a kid in 1975, my Dad taught me how to push out safely long before I got to the trials at age sixteen. he also taught me a few other things and during my time I've probably driven in about 1000 races and never brought anyone else down, but I've been brought down by a few dickheads and a couple of big names among them, so yeah I reckon I've got some idea on the subject.
Cheers,
Dan
Hey Dan
Would just be content with an interference free final that allows the top 4 every chance without any excuses. I've got no designs of applying any undue torque to your nether region.
Cheers
Have seen many changes over the years but the current push out or ease out rules are simple
There are 2 markers on all WA tracks that come into play, one entering the hom straight for the bell and one 600mtr from the end of the race
Entering the straight for the bell and until the 600mtr marker a driver can move from the fence to the 2 wide line pushing the horse on his out side 3 wide but cannot move from the 2 wide line to the 3 wide line forcing another runner wider.
At the 600 marker onwards you can move from any line forcing another runner wider providing this is done safely.
In Hall jnr case with Dasher VC Lewis tried to hold ITMQ down when his horse wasn't forward enough to do so
In Butts case on Raglan he was already in the 2 wide line at the first marker so was't able to force a runner 4 deep without suspension and from the 600 marker was only ever in a position to drop his own horse on the track if he attempted to push out
If you want a clear look of how this rule works coming into the straight have a look at Butts drive on Hostile Grins in race 7 Fri night.
He moves from the 2 wide line to the 3 wide line while another runner on his outside had its legs up past his wheel.
This resulted in the horse on his outside nearly being dropped on the track.
If he wanted to move 3 wide it should have happened before he had a runner on his outside, will be interesting to read the stewards report for to me he should get time
All that glitters is not necessarily gold.
It seems that what you think you saw is not necessarily what really happened.
The stewards on this ocassion don't appear to have seen it the way you saw it.
The same appears to be so for what people thought they saw in the Dasher VC / ITMQ situation.
I think why some think it was bad is that G halls horse was bigger and got his head over the neck of the outside horse and made it look worse than it was.
I reckon your on the money there Greg, it always grabs people's attention when one horse is taller than the other and their necks are crossing..bit of a "Ben Hur" look about it eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Hando
Why don't we bring in gigs like they use in the Ben Hur movie, where the driver stands up to drive in an enclosed "gig", there would be no problem then with the push out rule or cutting other drivers off etc!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
While we're at it get the spikes out the side to take out any challengers too!! and "cutting other drivers off" would take on new meaning and be really spectacular!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Form Student
Geez wouldn't the ambo's earn their wages!!
We could have special points rules too so if you took out X number of horses/drivers you got a ten second advantage!!
Good thinking Steve!
An extra 10 points if you turn around and chop up the clerk of the courses horse when there is a spill! Plus 1000 points if you take out the mobiles tyres!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Geez I'd hate the mobile drivers job!! you wouldn't get them working for 100 bucks,two beers and a steak sandwich thats for sure!!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Form Student
You have to be going quick to catch the mobile........the other good thing about these gigs would be that you wouldn't have all the drivers heads going side to side to see what is going on up front, you'd be looking over them...........unless you were Jimmy Douglas,you would need a lower & see-through front panel.......look the designs will probably take a bit of time to perfect!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
LMAO! maybe a periscope type arrangement would be the go! It would need to be fairly sturdy and not shake around too much as other wise that would defeat the purpose and JD 's head might start shaking around to compensate?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Form Student
Unknown to everybody HRNSW has been running trials of these gigs after the normal trials when most people have gone home.....luckily a friend of mine got this footage on his mobile phone and sent it me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...946&FORM=VIRE4
They must have been run a fair while ago....the steward in the purple cape is a dead ringer for a former NSW head honcho...he's got that same menacing "gotcha" look in his eyes too!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Form Student
Luke McCarthy won't have a problem with all his horses, as you can start 4 horses with the 1 driver!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Now you blokes know when Gary Hall gets his inspiration from. His favourite movie is Ben Hur and is idol is Chuck Heston.
And that little manouvre in the third last Friday night is straight from the screenplay.
Looks like Brad has woken up..........I've been trying to provide the entertainment tonight......looks like all the "moderators" are having the night off.........we could put some pretty controversial stuff on this site at the moment!Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobrad
No! I won't say that!....and I won't say that either!...and...no stuff it I won't say that as well. Yeah your right Steve.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Form Student