Acceptances for Menangle

Yes,
We would move the horse/horses if we did not have any prior knowledge of the treatment, if we did not people would think that we were
condoning the use of such techniques.

Only joking:) as long as we are winning that is all that matters.

Geeze Leigh. Pound for Pound that's arguably right up there with the biggest cans of worms to have been opened on this or any such Forum.
As a general comment, maybe John Celii, the owner of Badlands Hanover, and yourself should get together via e-mail & have a chat some time. He was & he no doubt still is very much into that subject. His was moreso coming at it from the standpoint of potential sires/siring careers & if I recall it correctly, at the time the Monte Gelrod/Bill Robinson show was running rampant which didn't help John's general demeanour when this sort of thing was raised...but it would be worth your while.

This is an oldie but a goodie,
if it is known to be fact then breeding to the horses that these guy's trained would be morally wrong? We would just be supporting the wrong doing, and also what would be a normal pre-race vet bill?
Anyone have an estimate.

$3000? no way:)

G'day SC,

Not going to buy into that one however, there are a lot of people who would have you believe it gives you a false impression of their worth as prospective sires & that it greatly reduces their chances of becoming successful sires. I should also say that I was once squarely amongst their number, but not anymore.

Without mentioning the horses & their respective Trainers by name....currently there are at least 10 of the top 20 on the 2012 season US All Age Pacing Sires List that came from barns that had scored multiple positives. On the current season's US 3yo Pacing Sires List it is at least 8 from 20 and thus far there have been no 2yo's to race.

2011 (the most recent fully completed season) wise...

- 10 of the top 20 & 7 of the top 10 All Age Pacing Sires

- 10 of the top 20 & 7 of the top 10 3yo Pacing Sires

....and

- 8 of the top 20 and 6 of the top 10 2yo Pacing Sires....

...came from barns that over the years have recorded multiple positives.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that it means nothing, at least as far as sires are concerned, something which I now agree with.

With the mares Fillies & Mares however, I still think that's another matter.

We are both reading the same page on this, it is funny though how things have changed since you have become a S-MOD(Curtin's love child) and are not willing to name the stallion:)

hahhahahahahaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the world is going to end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

Geeze Leigh. Pound for Pound that's arguably right up there with the biggest cans of worms to have been opened on this or any such Forum.
As a general comment, maybe John Celii, the owner of Badlands Hanover, and yourself should get together via e-mail & have a chat some time. He was & he no doubt still is very much into that subject. His was moreso coming at it from the standpoint of potential sires/siring careers & if I recall it correctly, at the time the Monte Gelrod/Bill Robinson show was running rampant which didn't help John's general demeanour when this sort of thing was raised...but it would be worth your while.

Can of worms??? How so? Owners have the power to send a message to trainers using illegal methods,and are caught doing so. By no means am I telling someone what to do with their horse/s, but if everyone is on the same page ie. level playing field, then we must listen to our conscience. Or is it just too high a price to pay, and we are better off just bitching about it on some forum?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild

That's exactly right. And nowhere in my deleted post did I suggest what he should do with his horses. But you know what is a bigger penalty than any time on the sidelines or fine to a trainer who has returned a positive swab to a banned substance? It is the loss of quality horses and quality owners. I'd be interested to know if any posters would consider taking horses off a trainer who returned a positive and perhaps lost a race due to it.

Perhaps I don't count at present as I don't have horses with a trainer at present, but I can tell you that in another life I have more then once removed a horse from riders that were of the highest calibre in their field as they had mistreated the animal. Depending on the exact circumstances and nature of a positive swab I wouldn't hesitate to remove a horse if I felt the circumstances warranted it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild

Can of worms??? How so? Owners have the power to send a message to trainers using illegal methods,and are caught doing so. By no means am I telling someone what to do with their horse/s, but if everyone is on the same page ie. level playing field, then we must listen to our conscience. Or is it just too high a price to pay, and we are better off just bitching about it on some forum?

[VVV] G'day Leigh, a can of worms insofar as I've seen this subject debated previously, initially it was on the old/now defunct Post Parade Harness List in the US and later on again it was on the follow on from that forum, which was US Harness List in one or other of it's forms. It went on for thousands of posts and for 2 or 3 months and it got pretty heated. Maybe things have changed since then, maybe they haven't.
That's all. I also thought that it was interesting that in the 2011 Season, 6 of the top 10 US/CAN 2yo Pacing Sires came out of Barns with a record of multiple violations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild

That's exactly right. And nowhere in my deleted post did I suggest what he should do with his horses. But you know what is a bigger penalty than any time on the sidelines or fine to a trainer who has returned a positive swab to a banned substance? It is the loss of quality horses and quality owners. I'd be interested to know if any posters would consider taking horses off a trainer who returned a positive and perhaps lost a race due to it.

I have had horse's with a trainer and done exactly that . He mentioned giving the horse a bit of help and i fed the horse that night and he hasn't had a horse of our's since.