can anyone out there give me a personal profile on this geoff want.
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can anyone out there give me a personal profile on this geoff want.
Personally I think that the only way that we could create any public interest in harness racing is if the drivers could look allot more like this .
Could you imagine this photo without the whip . How boring !!!
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/4...62ef?width=316
Is this not an easy issue to fix? The main issue is the appearance of abuse. So why muck around continuing with fines for whip infringements? Fines obviously aren't working, drivers are happy to cop a fine if they are still winning races!
So how about a simple system of suspensions, 2 weeks for the first offence, 4 weeks for the 2nd offence, 8 weeks for the third offence, 16 weeks for the fourth offence and so on. If drivers can't get the message then you are removing them from the public eye for longer periods thereby fixing up the image that is being presented.
Totally agree with you & its a good idea. Whats going to happen to all of those horses that won't finish off as good as they normally would without a tap up or smack. I believe they will have to retire but I think I know what could really happen to them.
I think the reasoning behind it is that they believe the younger generations are more sensitive to the issue of cruelty to animals.
Yes, I know what the ultimate cruelty is but you cannot use that argument or else we will be walking the perilous path that the dogs do
This subject will run its course. I find it a joke. I'm going back to back to the dungeon for a beating . hahaha.
Does anyone really believe the whip thing will save the industry. Doubt it. There won't be any horses to whip!!
I am happy for the administrators to try everything under the sun as this part of MG's article is the real worry as Trish suggests in post 46
"sent shockwaves through the small but uber passionate harness racing fraternity".
good read......gallops https://www.racenet.com.au/news/1299...ban-inevitable
Very good. Canvassing professional opinions; take out the over emotion, think rationally, think progressively and what do you get? Often those are key ingredients to common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
From the HRA Chairman
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=33299
It is interesting to read about NorwayQuote:
Originally Posted by arlington
Interesting yes, comparable...some poetic licence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
Or were you referring to this thread Kev? http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...ghlight=norway
The whip replacement, the guiding tool to be made from Norwegian wood?
https://www.thelocal.no/20120206/sta...rway-racetrack
Here is a bit Norwegian Gold for all
I don't see any guiding tools either
Maybe Kerryn should have been one of the drivers at HRA's whip consultation this week - I notice that there are no female drivers amongst the 10 attending
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC9VaulNrVU
Political gold Kev
:)
Ray Chaplin kindly shared this reply he received from Norway:
In Norway, the ban on using whip has been in force since the mid 70’s. Our drivers are not allowed to carry with them any form of device during the race or when warming up the horses. According to our rules and regulations all goading of the horse shall be administered gently with the lines/reins.
Also when correcting a horse which misbehaves in a manner that can pose a risk to the driver or other attendants, the drivers are dependent on using the lines/reins, in addition to their loud voice maybe. In such cases, off course, our stewards will allow a somewhat more excessive urging with the lines towards the horse.
In our opinion, there is no basis for claiming that more or more dangerous situations occur due to unruly horses as a result of the ban on using the whip.
I hope my answer was helpful to you. Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you need more information.
Med vennlig hilsen
Hanne Sæbø
Sportsmedarbeider|Det Norske Travselskap
Step 1: Whip haters are never going to be racing fans no matter what. Bring back the whip. Sport needs intensity and competitors trying to win at all costs (within the confines of the spirit of the game/sportsmanship). Losing the whip loses that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
I totally disagree with that Breno. Where is the intensity lacking in the link in post 54
In addition to that, it is a fact that most people and kids live in the cities, and IMO most of these kids - our future, would be horrified at the thought of whipping a horse.
If drivers were only tapping horses (not that different to using the reins) it might be acceptable but despite changes to the rules, many drivers arm actions look bad
Maybe I am somewhat influenced by the fact that the best horse I was connected with would kick the driver out of the cart if he touched him with a whip
I'm not sure about Knight Pistol exactly but most trainers say their champions had a will to win. Not many in everyday races share that will and even worse trainers describe them as non-triers. This is where the whip comes in. (Many other factors were at play in the intensity/excitement of that race and any race in fact - whip just one of many factors that come together for the final product)
People who are gobsmacked at the idea of whipping horses are generally not fans of breeding animals for human entertainment/greed. Not going to be fans anyway.
New fans don't understand negative influences of the whip on performance - social media has taught me just how naive some people are in regards to horse racing. Going to be a laughing stock for Average Joe when he watches a race and sees there are no whips.
How is it then that I did not laugh at that Norwegian race (and we know that they do not have whips in any of their races)Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebreno
Times in many of races will come down and there will be horses that will not attain the grading that they would have under the old system
Breeding will probably be affected as stallions that produce 'triers' will be in demand
I have not heard anything about whips being banned when training so I guess trainers will be trying to train the non-triers to respond to the scream they give when using the whip at home - that does not conjure up good images
Quite clearly you are better than just an Average Joe Kev. A sample of facebook and twitter comments paints a different picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
I'm not quite sure how an argument is made for times coming down due to no whips?
Yep - some of the whip use behind closed doors isn't pretty and will only increase now one would think.
It's a blanket ban intended here Kev, no whips in training. I don't think that's the case in Norway. One of the many many differences between Norway 1982 and Australia 2017 and even Norway 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
From a business perspective comparing Norway to Australia is a big stretch. The timing of the introduction of the whip ban in Norway coincided with what amounted to Norwegian trotting having full control of animal gambling. And I believe (even now) there was virtually no competition from the thoroughbreds, if it existed at all, and there's no greyhounds.
I can't help but think introducing a total ban here, point blank, will have a damaging effect on business. Who will extend an interest free line of credit waiting for the crowds to flock and betting to boil over? Realistically what could Tabcorp have said when asked to publicly comment about whips???? And I'm sure Tabcorp has already run the numbers on a total ban on whips such as this in harness racing. Would possibly drop Tabcorp's wagering turnover by 5% but harness racing by 20%.
Wayne, they probably don't have gallops competition in Norway - it is mind boggling to think that Trotting is bigger than gallops in Europe (yes, even in France)
If we are going with a blanket ban then we really have to push it home as a point of difference.
Use it to capture the young - have a pony trot before the first every Saturday night and Sunday arvo
We have to try and capture families because I agree with Ray's last sentence - the lack of public support is our biggest problem (I see the equation as >support>ownership>racing stock>turnover>support>......)
I did wonder about staggering the change ie 2018 no whips in 2yo races, in 2019 no whips in 2yo & 3yo races, 2020 no whips in 2yo, 3yo & 4yo races (which you program more of), 2021 no whips except in claimers, 2022 no whips at all.
I wonder how many families see the ponies, would love to get their kid involved but think it's too difficult to get started. I was lucky enough to have ponies as a kid and my dad's a trainer so I did pony trots from 8-16 but families with no horse contact, perhaps they could have a recruitment day or sign up period to get non horsey people involved
http://www.harness.org.au/news/images/main/12224.jpg Safety Device to be trialled in Hobart next week.
Is it just me or does this new safety device designed to replace the whip suspiciously look like a whip??
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=33454
I wonder if it has an air bag?
I like this one but you cannot use it on cows ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTQ
One of the main hurdles (Warrnambool pun) for non horsey parents is costs. A property, a pony, a horse float, fuel to tow pony around.... reasons why they are non horsey. How many kids, and their parents, have been inspired and have gotten involved by seeing the pony trots? Not that I'm suggesting we don't have pony trots but I'm wondering what the figures are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Is the safety device illustrated a cut down whip with a blunt ended rubber sleeve over it? HRA will provide measurements and sleeve to keep costs down of having to throw a whip out and buy another?
perhaps they could start a program where everything is taken care of, all they need to do is do a training course on how to handle a pony, turn up and gear the pony up and race.Quote:
Originally Posted by arlington
I'm not sure how many would turn up and get inspired, but if it was more attainable and there were signs around telling kids and parents it was possible, maybe there'd be more interest.
When I aged out of the ponies, a girl used to drive my pony. We provided everything, she just got him to the trots and drove him. She came from a horsie background so had a float but I'm sure the clubs could work something out with pony owners
My first reaction is that it is a fantastic idea Katie but then when I put my 'modern world hat' on (it is an ugly thing), I wonder about the risks and liability - sad that this even pops into my head
Pony trots should always continue but I hear where Wayne is coming from and you would/should be evaluating there industry output. Everything should be evaluated but pony trots are one thing that should not be all about results.
Over here it's almost a prerequisite for young people wanting to become involved to go through what is called here "Kidz Kartz" on their way to a trials licence and on to the junior driver's licence. Most of the current juniors and many of our younger professional drivers driving in our races have gone through the programme. Even if you have no ties and no pony it is not an impediment to going through the program. Many of the youngsters have their own ponies, often more than one which are often made available to those who dont.
They compete often on racedays where friends and family get to view them performing and there is even a Kidz Cartz NZ and Auckland Cups. Often as sort after by the young as are the real thing.
This program is a real success story over here (NZ) getting young and new blood into the industry already with skill sets.
It sounds fantastic Tony - we let you guys take all our money and never bother to learn anything from you
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
The pony trots, having been run for 30 odd years here, have been useless compared to it's NZ counterpart Kev?
I think I see where you're coming from "...pony trots are one thing that should not be all about results". For sure but it obviously isn't the savior of our industry. Will it be for NZ?
Running them "every Saturday night and Sunday arvo" (imagining the poor kids out at Melton or Ballarat mid Winter) would up the rate of non horsey kids maintaining significant involvement as trainers, owners, and of course drivers when they're in their 20's? But, still, I'd hope they continue for as long as our sport continues. Got to love those standing start handicaps.
The pony trots are a great thing and I notice the new General Manager of Racing has it in their portfolio but keeping those kids encouraged when they have disposable incomes is the thing. I'd measure that result.
Back to the thread:
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=33487
Whips to be retained in training.
Yeah, we have probably had pony trots as long as NZ but the part I found interesting was the fact that "Even if you have no ties and no pony it is not an impediment to going through the program"
As for the cold - before the first race at Melton tonight : we are talking about 5pm. Wayne, it is us oldies that feel the cold - not kids
I don't know whether the aim is to keep them involved until they have disposable incomes or even that they may one day be the ones putting on the big show - maybe just having as many as possible growing up with 'harness' in their vocabulary
Whip free racing is still going to happen but not from Sept 1 - said to be unachievable
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=33821
I wonder why that would be when down in Tassie they seemed to be making good progress 4 wks ago ( which then was still 16 weeks till the new season)
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=33574
If the mighty saints weren't playing tonight Kev I would whip up to Devonport races tonight and check it out but I will get some feedback this Sunday and relay some 1st hand info back to the forum. I am looking forward to seeing the "Prototype 1" secret weapon which will now be version 2.
Try this without whip training - loading your horse.
https://www.facebook.com/shannon.bar...8800000815900/
Absolutely superb......would a recording of a whip cracking have the same effect? :)