Quote:
Originally Posted by teecee
In my humble opinion, there are insufficient details in the article for anyone to form a viable opinion about anything other than this gent was exonerated.
Full stop..thats it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teecee
In my humble opinion, there are insufficient details in the article for anyone to form a viable opinion about anything other than this gent was exonerated.
Full stop..thats it!
Keenly awaiting Patrick Bartley's coverage of this story. Somehow I do not think it will be reported by PB.
https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/c...ed-court-hears
Thanks for the link Jack but it is absolutely ridiculous to make Patrick Bartley the issue
Kevin, obviously Patrick Bartley's is not the issue. However his attitude and the attitude of others has continually bemused me in the Cobalt issue.
To me there has always been something about introduction of the outlawing of Cobalt usage that has not made sense. The rushed trials, the lack of proof of performance enhancement, the harsh penalties has not sat well with me. Everyone wants the cheats out of the game, but ultimately the stewards role is to be like a referee. Impartial and enforce the rules. Unfortunately I think we currently have a situation where the referee is changing the rules without due consideration. If this story is correct and don't forget the courts will deal with this matters far differently than the stewards or the industry appeal tribunal it will make a complete mockery of the sport and its administrators.
The courts will rule only on points of law and proper procedures etc, they wont take into account animal welfare or the administrators rights to make whatever rules they like. And the fact that all participants have agreed to abide by those rules and judgements . If it can be proven that the labs were not accredited to test for cobalt levels and there are no remaining samples to re test then the charges will have to be dropped and compensation paid. Heads would have to roll at the VRC etc. Of course the sport will be the big looser.
The mockery will come if it is viewed as 'cheats prosper' rather than 'stewards stuff up'Quote:
Originally Posted by Pena
As far as Cobalt goes, I do not need to know much more than the facts that the average horse tests <5 and that correct feeding and administering of approved products cannot result in >35
One thing for sure is that the issue has been nearly as big a circus as the Essendon FC case
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...13-go5cvb.html
That's a pretty simplistic point of view Kevin.
The facts are, just because stewards are stewards, does not make them right and any less accountable than the "Cheats" to following the rules. I am sure I do not need to give you any accounts of stewards not following the rules. If you are going to take away someone's livelihood and tarnish their reputation surely everything should be done to ensure the rules are followed to the letter.
If a horse registered a reading 100 times higher than normal for Vitamin C they would not get 3 years and I cannot see that Cobalt is anymore performance than Vitamin C or any other approved supplement.
So trainers just giving it to them for no reason. Quite a number of horses could be named as improving around the time of cobalt and sure enough a few of them belonged to trainers who went positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pena
Gday Jack. You can't compare Vitamin C to Cobalt but I think I see your point. You will concede that to exceed the 200 Cobalt level something 'artificial' is being done? When it was detected a long time ago people were told to stop using it. It was added to the list of things they were testing for and everyone was told. But some kept using (maybe unknowingly) and got caught. Performance enhancing or not... why would they keep using it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pena
The dodgy 'vet(s)' are the ones that should be wearing the brunt of this more than any I reckon. But appears they are allowed to 'move on' whilst others cop the crap.
I'll get simplistic too.... You paying up for horses Jack? You happy to do that knowing others are flouting the rules?
I like to keep things simple and to the point Jack. Would you be happy to have something in your body at 100 times the level that the average human has?
I like Brenno and Paul's replies
http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-h...ir-prof-g-hallQuote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
Another interesting one TC
For some reason it makes me think of how Blackmores shares have skyrocketed - the chinese market trusts Blackmores' vitamins. What I am getting at is that trusted manufacturers may become more and more important in our industry too
I hear McDowell and Day have had their penalties reduced and will be getting their licences back.
Anyone heard anything similar??
Racing Australia announced that the new level for Cobalt is to be 100mg/l from September 1, replacing the current permissible level of 200mg/l
The silence is deafening on the Mcdowell and Day case.
I have been told their penalties have been reduced to around 2 years but I cannot confirm this despite being able to find plenty on the original penalties.
Does anyone know??
I see the Appeal transcipts for Day and McDowell are now available.
All I can say is intriguing reading.
http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au...n%20060716.pdf
Neil day only 1 year 2 months and 26 days and McDowell 2 years 2 months and 6 days.
Both finish their penalty on the same day.
Obviously the parties made a deal and I can smell a very big rat.
Why have both HRNSW and the Tribunal weaken their stance so much on this Cobalt matter?
What does HRNSW have to hide?
As for John Dumesney saying this is what the tribunal is for, please give me a break.
This was a deal struck by HRNSW and only ratified by the Tribunal.
So why have HRNSW weaken their stance on the Cobalt issue?
Maybe they haven't weakened their stance on cobalt but have had to compromise on this case.
Racing Victoria have not weakened their stance - halving the acceptable level, and yet due to circumstances have advised Peter Moody he may wish to appeal his suspension
Like it or not HRNSW have weakened their stance. This case has certainly shown that. I think more importantly what information have HRNSW effectively suppressed by not running this appeal. I bet the participants that got significantly harsher penalties would like to know.
Neil day will be back in the driver's seat this Wednesday at Bathurst:
http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=BH200716
Interesting to see a horse like Miss Artistic Tara still performing after 2 disqualifications for Cobalt.
Almost 2 years after being disqualified twice for Cobalt use winning an M0 in 1:52.
http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au.../replays/26002
Darrel Graham in trouble for cobalt (Again? I think we are still waiting for the consequences of a previous one more than a year ago)
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=30542
a day after getting a pat on the back
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=30539
Not a good look
Vet had suspicions on $1000 'vitamins' for racehorses
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horserac...03-gqkhjm.html
The last line reads really badly IMO
I'm trying to tell the truth."
And some people would have us believe the whole Cobalt saga is all about nothing other than the ineptitude of the various racing authorities' abilities to send swab samples to adequately accredited labs!! I wonder if, when re-tested elsewhere, the samples will have "inexplicably altered" in "unique circumstances"....I'm pretty sure that may have happened somewhere before!!??!!
Darrel Graham is currently in Australia's Top 20 Trainers for 2015-16 but after today's decision he will miss all next season and be giving them a headstart in 2017-18 and he is lucky to be getting off with 15mths
Interesting to see that the cobalt deck of cards is about to collapse. Maybe this puts into perspective the change in attitude to Day and McDowell. Participants are meant to adhere to the rules, this includes the stewards who should be even more accountable. I am betting that the racing administrators do not tow the line with HRNSW.
https://www.racing.com/news/2016-09-...of-cobalt-test
Of course you realize that this has nothing to do with cobalt the substance Jack. What does the part I highlighted mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pena
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/381...ign=09-06-2016
Article from The Horse: Cobalt Administration Can Put Horses, Humans at Risk by Erica Larson
http://www.harnessracing.com/news/nu...evelof400.html
Interesting read. Not performance enhancing?
Quote halfway through it...
Swedish horsemen had an immediate reaction to the scandal, among them Stefan Melander, the trainer and owner of Nuncio, who picks up an additional two wins—and approximately $90,000 in purses—due to the positive tests.
"I and many others have been surprised by some transformations. Mediocre horses that became stars of Souloy," said Melander when asked for his reaction to the news.
The horse Lionel in the article was the one that beat Bold Eagle in France when he was going for the 'Grand Slam'. Bold Eagle cruised passed him and he looked beaten but miraculously came back and won. Will try dig out the replay. Maybe some retrospective testing in France coming up as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toohard
Here's replay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5N66g4rDvM
Lionel sits in death whole way and Bold Eagle sits on his back. Nothing happens rest of race so if interested just watch from about the 4 min 25 sec mark onward... "Un mircale!!"
Not just Lionel but the whole 4 are big race winners:
Un Mec d'Heripre won an elimination for the Elitlopp over Nuncio and then finished third in the final, which was won by Nuncio. Your Highness, a daughter of Chocolatier, won the Oslo Grand Prix over Nuncio.
In addition, Timone EK, who won a feature race at Bjerjke the same day as the Oslo Grand Prix, had a cobalt level of 271. He too was trained by Souloy.
http://www.harnessracing.com/news/nu...evelof400.html
The positive European tests, which were reportedly confirmed by a French laboratory, are as follows:
Un Mec d'Heripre--prior to Elitlopp elimination—400; prior to Elitlopp final—371; prior to Oslo Grand Prix—521
Your Highness--prior to Oslo Grand Prix—395
Lionel--prior to Oslo Grand Prix-468
http://www.harnessracing.com/news/nu...evelof400.html
Remember that the normal horse tests at <10
Yes Kev you're right but the win of Lionel in France....mmmmm. I see Your Highness has been scratched from the big race in France tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
The legal team in at VCAT at the moment must be rubbing their hands in delight. Experts at these matters now they might have a European vacation upcoming. After all 'red herring' very popular dish in northern Europe....
Some more reading about it here but you need to use the translate button (Chrome) unless speak Swedish
http://www.expressen.se/sport/trav/f...ngd-i-sverige/
The story broke on this forum/blog
http://ingvarssonopersson.se/
Reading through some of the comments... you'd be pulling your hair out moderating that one Kev!!
Tricky translating Paul but the point made that cobalt was not banned until last year in Sweden, makes you wonder about past performances
Funny translating some of it. The bloke had a punch on after a race after a race a few years back. When you translate it says "The pair exchanged sex words with each other and then it began the biff".
Souloy was interviewed off camera yesterday by a bloke who was obviously born into equine sports. His name? Tony Equestrian. Seriously that's his name!
http://www.expressen.se/sport/trav/f...stort-misstag/
It has stormed the trotting world in recent days. On Thursday came reports that several of Fabrice Souloys
horses tested positive for doping. Fabrice Souloy has since been turned off in Sweden. During TV4 V75 broadcast
on Saturday the reporter Tony Equestrian was in place down there in France and had talked with Fabrice Souloy
who did not want to stand in front of the camera. Tony Equestrian told, however, what the Frenchman said.
- There are vitamins I gave the horses on the advice of my vet. It is a big mistake.
- I have been advised by the vet to give the horses the vitamin supplement every day so that they would
manage journeys between Sweden and Norway better.
He does not say anything straight out says Tony Equestrian. The general attitude in France is that it was
about time.
Peter Kallings, veterinary and doping expert, was also included in the broadcast. He does not believe that it
is possible that the horses high levels of cobalt may have been accidental. It is clearly above
the permitted limit. I see no natural explanation for the high values, he said in the broadcast.
If you go back a few years you'll find an interesting story about a horse called Commander Crowe and an IV drip that disappeared real quick when authorities wanted to examine it.
http://www.austrotforum.com/weblog/a...elitloppet.jpgCommander Crowe
Funny translating some of it. The bloke had a punch on after a race after a race a few years back. When you translate it says "The pair exchanged sex words with each other and then it began the biff".
I've been learning French again recently Paul and I think Souloy might have said "go forth and multiply" but I could be wrong!
That reminds me of another mis-translation. To "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" came instead "The vodka is good but the meat is off" :) :) :) !