Can Drug Testing alone catch or stop DRUG cheats? - Richard Freedman on TripleM Radio

Forum Rules (Must Read)
With ongoing drug scandals in Australia it's important that everybody understands what can and can't be said on a public forum from a legal perspective.

A public forum IS NOT the same as chatting to people at the track. Legally it's akin to writing something in a newspaper, meaning if you are going to attack or accuse somebody, you need to be prepared to back your statements up with proof within that same post. If you do not you can be taken to court, or we (Harnesslink) can be; and we can be shut down.

You may discuss any publicly available information from reputable sources. These include but aren't limited to: Press releases put out by HRNSW (or other state organisations), news posted by HR Australia, or Harnesslink etc. If you are posting something that could be considered controversial you need to include the link to the source in your post.

If somebody has been caught cheating, you may call them a cheat. Personal attacks (like calling them an asshole) will not be tolerated.

Hinting that somebody is or might be cheating is the same as saying it directly. We can all read between the lines and that type of carry on is not allowed.

You can freely debate with other members, but again no personal attacks. Attack the argument not the person. If threads turn nasty they will be closed or deleted and members may be banned.

Depending on the severity of what is said, members who break these rules will receive warnings, or 7 day, 30 day, or permanent bans.

We want to ensure good lively discussion and trust that these small limitations are easy for most people on here to follow.

For those who haven't been able to find them The rules of this forum are above.
The two highlighted rules have become very pertinent to 2 threads....
This one and the one about US drug use.
Please consider this post a warning. Contrary to the views of some please do not consider that because I haven't deleted your posts that it is okay.
I have not been able to keep up with the goings on on these two threads I think that if I was to moderate these threads my best option would be to delete them completely.
To those who keep within sight of the rules when contributing....Thank you.
To those who have difficulty...Please try harder

Tee Cee I gather these rules apply to all or is VVV excluded? Given that in recent times I have been the brunt of many a derogatory comment from VVV regarding my intelligence levels, if I have suffered a brain injury, or am in need of medication and the like it would appear that VVV is not held to the standard you refer to in the forum rules. But as in my opinion every insult I receive from VVV is simply validation that his arguement has been lost I actually don't mind. However I do believe the personal attacks that VVV has launched on me has discourage many a poster from making a contribution here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzy

VVV care to provide the names of those legal registered accepted equine treatments?

Dot

Again this is just a stupid post designed to do nothing more than stir.

You and I and everybody else with that IQ of 1 knows if VVV starting typing the brand names of all the legal registered therapeutic treatments permitted in both codes of Australia Horse racing he would be typing from now until the next interdominion heats.

I have tried to not get personal or be insulting but with posts like this one it is a hard road to toe.

If you want to make a point make it but please leave shit like this out, your request is a near impossible task I doubt even your man Tobin could produce this list.

He said..She said claims are unhelpful. The rules apply to all.
Just remember it takes two to tango and parts of this thread are well off the acceptable standard of civil acceptance of others' legitimate views.
That said if you want to put up a controversial viewpoint be prepared to back it with published evidence. Dot I struggle to understand why you go back to post 26 of the thread and use it today to generate what can only be described at best unhelpful but more accurately malicious suggestion, then come on here and suggest a double standard in my applying the rules.

Let's not go there. As I have said previously I am happy to discuss but not justify my interpretation of the rules or how they are applied.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevoiceofreason

Dot

Again this is just a stupid post designed to do nothing more than stir.

You and I and everybody else with that IQ of 1 knows if VVV starting typing the brand names of all the legal registered therapeutic treatments permitted in both codes of Australia Horse racing he would be typing from now until the next interdominion heats.

I have tried to not get personal or be insulting but with posts like this one it is a hard road to toe.

If you want to make a point make it but please leave shit like this out, your request is a near impossible task I doubt even your man Tobin could produce this list.

Bill Dr Tobin is actually "your" Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by teecee

He said..She said claims are unhelpful. The rules apply to all.
Just remember it takes two to tango and parts of this thread are well off the acceptable standard of civil acceptance of others' legitimate views.
That said if you want to put up a controversial viewpoint be prepared to back it with published evidence. Dot I struggle to understand why you go back to post 26 of the thread and use it today to generate what can only be described at best unhelpful but more accurately malicious suggestion, then come on here and suggest a double standard in my applying the rules.

Let's not go there. As I have said previously I am happy to discuss but not justify my interpretation of the rules or how they are applied.

Tee Cee VVV has constantly denigrated those here who feel that anabolic steroids should be included in out of competition testing, refering just recently to us as "the lunatic fringe". My point was VVV is well aware, as indicated in post 26, as to how anabolic steroids can be used in a manner that circumvents current drug testing protocols and my question to him is, armed with that knowledge, why is he so adamant that the rules not be changed to stop those drug cheats who attempt to circumvent the rules in the manner in which he described.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzy

Bill Dr Tobin is actually "your" Man

Dot

To debate with me you will need facts or a good memory unfortunately you seem to come up short on both.

I have included a snippet of one of your posts on another thread re raceday medications where you chose to lead us to Dr Tobin's website in support of your view that makes him your man I feel.

"Bill I am the one with the licence remember, of course the ability of laboratories to test to the picogram is of concern. When VVV first proposed his list here that I knew of I didn't dismiss it, but it is nowhere as simple a proposition as he believes. Go to Thomas Tobins web site and you will read what is involved. Bute may have only swabbed for three days in the seventies and everyone may have had their horses on anabolic steroids but what made those parameters right? Clearly we changed as far as anabolic steroids went, and yes bute tests for much longer now, well beyond its therapeutic effect."

So Dot this is my last post against your views on this subject.

I could of course go down the road of agreeing with you but that would just make us both wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzy

Tee Cee I gather these rules apply to all or is VVV excluded? Given that in recent times I have been the brunt of many a derogatory comment from VVV regarding my intelligence levels, if I have suffered a brain injury, or am in need of medication and the like it would appear that VVV is not held to the standard you refer to in the forum rules. But as in my opinion every insult I receive from VVV is simply validation that his arguement has been lost I actually don't mind. However I do believe the personal attacks that VVV has launched on me has discourage many a poster from making a contribution here.

Dizzy, I can't even recall if I have posted on this thread or not, but it was pretty apparent right from the start that there are two trains of thought and it has played out that way. In fact Jamie and Bill are consistent with their arguement and it is painfully obvious that their viewpoint is not going to change no matter how many facts, figures, quotes or evidence to the contrary that you bring to the topic. Admire your tenacity but deadset you are not going to win this on-going battle with them. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer on the topic, it is simply two polar opposite opinions that are unable to accept or concede a point. Stalemate. And a pretty boring stalemate at that. Have stated before that the public slanging match we have seen here does none of you any credit and cheapens the conversation. Have always said that VVV has a case with SOME substance positives but am dead against steroids and the like. Agree with you to some degree why there are not more posters making comment, but its not because we fear ridicule from others, more that we know some will not move on the subject.

But don't let me stop you Dot, you have certainly made for some interesting reading.

Brad

You are right I will not bend on this issue racing can not survive if therapeutics are not permitted to be used. Which is why they are permitted almost world wide.

The call for the out of competition testing for therapeutics would cripple the industry in both a loss of horses and a cost to complete the testing.

I for one would be much happier if we started by testing more winners post race including 2 hour TCO2 tests for things that go like a lear jet and more horses pre race for TCO2 this will do more to enhance the credibility of the sport than making a steroid used on a horse just back in work that may have spelled poorly an offence.

Sure the gallops test more out of competition than we do but the again they test every winner first and be assured they are not testing out of competition for steroids either.

I have bumped this thread as I came across it when looking as to where I should make the following post and found it a fascinating read (until we got into a stalemate near the end)
It was before my time on the forum. Mark, Dizz, VVV - most interesting and entertaining (although VVV did show why he needed to quit as a Mod see Post 208 for an example)
But the most memorable post was Breno's Post 110 at the bottom of Pg11
Don't read the thread in one sitting as it will do your head in

Back to today: For the majority who do not subscrible to PeterProfit's blog I am providing this link to The Black Horse Newsletter.

https://www.goldrushpublications.com/general-4

You will find some of his thoughts on drugs in racing in the newsletters second story

Today in his blog Archie (PP) has given up and said that the only way to achieve a level playing field is to legalize all drugs so that all are free/able to (if they wish) use the drugs that the cheats are using