dartmoor

See...now that sort of comment is the last refuge of scoundrels Buster.
Are you up for the wager... or not?
It's not like I stand to gain anything from any of it, in fact I'm on a hiding to nothing.
Best case scenario for me is that you buy someone else a snazzy bottle of Kentucky's finest and throw yourself on the mercy of the Court...so to speak.
Worst case is that I have to shell out for your nosebag session.
Hmmmmm.
I sense that a further sweetener is required.
How's this then?
If you're right then not only is it dinner on me but I drop my dacks in the middle of Pitt St Mall on Friday at lunchtime and sing 'Hey Big Spender' by Shirley Bassey.
Shop around, I'm telling you here and now...you will not beat that offer.

i can guarantee i have more info on this than you.... still want the bet?

I don't think this is an appropriate conversation for a public internet forum? No matter what ones personal belief is, referring or inferring that someone is using enhancements on their horses... on a public forum... not good... sometimes even those with the best intentions can be wrong. And it isn't hard to trace IPs. :(

Indeed. The VERY 1ST post to this thread wasn't appropriate Flashing, hence the reason that I took issue with it and increasingly so up to this point.
Buster, you asked me if I still want to make that bet? My answer to that is...ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY!
I'm only guessing but I'd say that a bottle of Maker's Mark should suffice. I'm letting you know so that should you see it on special you can avail yourself of a purchase in advance.

:confused:Come on Everyone,don't think for one moment that if someone can gain an upper hand in this cut throat costly sport they wont take it.When you see trainers turning mediocre performers into multiple winners,not just one or two but most of the stable you have to ask.Whats going on? Back in the 80's with the analyst's stating we are now able to detect this drug and that (etorphine & palfium being two) it was mind boggling.Then came the saline drenches which many feared was a masking agent for something else.It doesn't matter what sport it is be it professional road cycling, track cycling,athletics etc.if there is a chance to get away with it they will take the risk.It has always been being able to keep one step ahead of the analyst.The one thing today,that does put my mind at ease is the freezing of swabs to be re-analyzed in a few years down the track. this has gone a long way to cleaning racing up.

if they have only just started testing for a several drugs in the tour de france and olympics, what hope has the horse labs of testing for them

Placing the aspect of wrongdoing aside for a moment, take a moment to consider the basic economics of what you're suggesting.
By default you're saying that the prizemoney in Harness Racing is so lucrative that those out there who may wish to take a walk on the wildside can make a money in money out case for using a series of expensive designer drugs in order to hoodwink the current testing procedures and make off with the loot?
C'mon now Buster. If they were going for 20k+ every time they stepped out then you might have something...but considering the costs and the difficulty there would be in procuring courses of these cutting edge human drugs so as to be co-opted for use in horse racing, total purses of $5,000 just isn't going to cut it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by triplev123

Placing the aspect of wrongdoing aside for a moment, take a moment to consider the basic economics of what you're suggesting.
By default you're saying that the prizemoney in Harness Racing is so lucrative that those out there who may wish to take a walk on the wildside can make a money in money out case for using a series of expensive designer drugs in order to hoodwink the current testing procedures and make off with the loot?
C'mon now Buster. If they were going for 20k+ every time they stepped out then you might have something...but considering the costs and the difficulty there would be in procuring courses of these cutting edge human drugs so as to be co-opted for use in horse racing, total purses of $5,000 just isn't going to cut it.

You know a bit about this mate???

whats the most expensive performance enhancing drug around? epo, already had positive swabs to it and probably more if it didnt cost so much to test for

bicarb is obviously the cheapest most effective and your allowed to have it, very handy stuff if you get the timing right

pretty easy to back a horse to win 10k at any meeting in vic and metro regions in nsw, so all of a sudden you are racing in a 20k race

plus theres the future bonus of the better horses that will end up in your stable

G'day Buster,

You're moving the goal posts around on me.
First it was new & previously undetectable drugs in the Frog Bike Rides and that travelling corrupt ridden sham known as the modern day Olympics, now it's old school 'the needy and the greedy' stuff like Bi-carb and EPO. Which is it?
If you had unlimited funds and reliable access and if you really wanted to be a villain and sought to use something that would light them up that nobody has a test for...then I'm sure there are numerous options available other than old school stuff like EPO or easily detected Prehistoric acid buffers like Bicarb or stimulants like Caffiene or NSAID's like Bute etc etc.
The problem is that just like DVD Players or Wide Screen TV's initially such high tech options come at an extremely high/inflated price, and so in the case of our Industry one that is going to be largely unsustainable given the basic economics of the majority of Harness Racing in this country. No doubt the arse fell out of the black market EPO price when a conclusive test became available (& those tests have become increasingly cheaper over time) and things moved on to other areas.
For a good example, if you happen to read Medical & Scientific Journals & such you'll have noted the release of a whole new class of cardio vascular type drugs that come with aranesp like qualities. Their nature is such that a bankable test for it in equines will not become available at any time into the forseeable future, if at all.
These new drugs are the result of some rather wonderful research and a very different way of looking at and treating human ailments, one that does not have the risks associated with EPO and its derivitives/relatives/offspring. They are also so far out over the cutting edge of their own field...let alone that of the current testing regimes for equines...that they make virtually all other drugs previously in the cross hairs for use in such circumstances look like Cello Players in Marching Bands. As I said before, villainy and wrongdoing aside, I simply doubt that anyone has the access to nor do they have the considerable $$$ required to plonk down for such drugs to then turn around and use them on a horse with 5k stakes and the expectation of 10k on the Punt. That's not to say that someone, somewhere in the World is not doing so already, just that given the economic constraints of racing I very, very much doubt it is happening here.