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But if they dont race at 2, there is nothing to suggest that they would turn out to be compettive at GC level. They might have just been well gaited, early maturing types
My daughters play rep basketball. The kids that were the best 2 and 3 years ago are no longer the best. Some of them simply havent grown much and are now too small to compete against the bigger girls who were late maturers
Blacks a Fake raced 5 times as a 2yo.
In the end i believe its up to the trainer that you entrust your horse with. Some will push too hard, but there are plenty good horsemen and horsewomen that can do the right thing by you and your horse and include racing at 2
C'mon Dan,Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
You don't start a thread like this without having an opinion yourself. So please enlighten us with your opinion?
Mitch.
Ah Blacks A Fake, what a fantastic example of how to produce a grand circuit horse.
Race four times as a 2yo in the last month of the season to knock out the greenness and then 8 times as a three year old followed up by a one year spell.
This is the last horse I would market as a 2yo going on to be a grand circuit horse.
This is the classic example of how to look after a good horse.
I'm unable to sit on the sidelines any longer.
Firstly...
There have been a number of studies carried out in both the Standardbred & Thoroughbred Industries and both returned the finding that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that 2yo racing has any deletorious effect on the longevity of the racing population.
In fact evidence has been repeatedly found that strongly suggests the horses which begin their careers at 2yrs have notably longer racing careers, they have more starts per year & they win more money per head by their career's end than those who begin racing at 3yrs & older.
Furthermore this particularly pertains to horses that have raced at 2yrs having overall better developed/notably more robust musculoskeletal health. For some interesting reading on the subject, I think Phil might already have posted this link here? but if not, here it is. http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2012...#axzz2ZIcjWj79 .
Secondly...
Insofar as the Standardbred Breed is concerned, unlike our counterparts in the TB's, we as an Industry make the HUGE mistake of repeatedly FAILING to recognise a great many insurmountable, inescapable physiological and genetic aspects inherently present in our Breed. Despite what some believe and what some would have us believe, like the TB's we ALSO have early maturing and late maturing sirelines & we ALSO have early maturning & late maturing maternal familes. Similarly we have within our Breed sirelines and families ranging from high speed/fast twitch muscled/'sprint' distance types through to gridning/slow twitch/'staying' distance types.
Further to this, IMO, because of our Industry's perculiar and I would argue overall negative resulting fixation with breeding a 'Jack Of All Trades' type of horse that will go early over a short distance from a mobile but is also expected to go on and race until aged over distance from a stand...we produce a great many horses that are scattered through various points in between.
Essentially this widespread ignoring of the various inherant aspects of our Breed and the failure to emphasise/breed towards/capitalise upon them IMO dooms a large number of the annual foal crop to mediocrity, they ultimately end up being neither one thing nor the other.
I've gone onto a bigger issue there but I think it pertains directly to the question this thread raises just the same. Bringing this reply back to the bare bones of the thread title I firmly believe as a proposal that it similarly...I would argue traditionally...ignores those insurmountable, inescapable physiological and genetic aspects inherently present in our Breed I mentioned above. The fact is that some horses are naturally/genetically destined to be all they'll ever be at 2 & 3 and even within that tight 2& 3 subset there are some who are all that they'll ever be at 2yrs & they will never improve a yard at 3yrs & beyond.
As distasteful as it is for me to admit it, the way in which the TB's revel in and focus upon the various sireline/maternal family/genetic traits/strengths of their breed which range from Golden Slipper 2yo speed scampers to Milers through to Melbourne Cup 2 Mile slogs is a book from which we should seriously think about taking a page or two.
It will never happen however, by way of suggesting that we as an Industry should totally remove 2yo racing from our activities, Dan...you are by default or otherwise suggesting we ignore or remove that section of the Breed who's genentics are responsible for early going precocious juvenile speed/performance, something which is obviously impossible to do.
Blackie actually got injured as a 3yo otherwise would have raced a lot more in his 3yo season. My point being that Blackie did race as a 2yo (all be it very late). What about all the other examples i have of horses racing in the biggest 2yo race and still becoming FFA
If you think your best chance to produce a GC horse is to not race them at 2, then dont! That is your choice. You may be right!
On the other hand, if i think i have a precocious type, I may choose to race him at 2.
[VVV] How to produce a GC horse? :confused: C'mon now.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarnessFan
These days, with the quality and range of Sires available juvenile performers can be specifically bred for and they can duly be produced with ever increasing degrees of certainty...but anyone who thinks for one minute that they can set out to breed an Open Class/Aged GC performer is kidding themselves in a huge way. GC horses can and they do come from anywhere. They are not bred for, they are not specifically produced with Aged GC duties in mind. They simply occur, they are born, and exclusive of the efforts of all & sundry.
I always find it interesting to look at the breeding of FFAs. Tinted Cloud, Badlands Hanover, Panorama, Washington VC, Iraklis, Echelon. These sires have thrown out and out champions. You could buy a straw of each for one Bettors or Art Major! If there is an example of a 2yo but mainly 3yo who should have been burnt out at the moment it's Excel Stride. Watching that horse chase around Sushi Sushi and the work he was doing to get to the chair each time was demoralising. But he has improved, sure he isn't dominating, but there's no doubt he has improved.
The best 2 male two year olds in Excel Strides year were Royal Verdict and Sushi Sushi. I wonder if we will see them race as well as they were. I don't think there is anything to do with the breeding of these horses that make them incapable of racing regularly as older horses.
If you race at the highest level as a 2yo, you are extremely likely to have issues later on. Yes we can find the odd exception with Excel Stride.
You only need to look at the top 20 stake earners over the last 10 years to be staggered at the lack of racing that good 2yo's can sustain at an age beyond 5.
The fascination that improvement is linear and the same horses who dominate at two should dominate at open level is bizarre. In what other avenue of life is improvement linear, where others can't progress faster or slower, or one can plateau? Why is racing any different?