Apparently we are not comparing apples with apples as the NSW wage bill does NOT include Menangle (paid by Club Menangle)Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
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Apparently we are not comparing apples with apples as the NSW wage bill does NOT include Menangle (paid by Club Menangle)Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
This was Shane Gloury from the Victorian Harness Racing Club on Giddy Up on Monday
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0v2hkcKkDdQIpHgs3SBnMp
This was HRV CEO Matthew Isaacs and HRV Chairman Adam Kilgour on Giddy Up on Tuesday
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2tlcAuI0LBrDw3uxiZCT89
Being the deaf coot that I am, although I heard everything in the Shane Gloury interview and also had no trouble with Gareth's voice in the CEO/Chairman interview, I did not catch everything that the Chair and CEO said.
I don't think that they told us very much - I would paraphrase the info that they did pass on as "we are facing massive cuts and DO NOT have any claim to the additional Melton land". They might think that harsh but I am trying to temper what I believe to be the case - "we are stuffed"
We needed to be jumping up and down in 2019 when the government legislated that the sale of assets by statutory bodies sees the proceeds go to the government
The Board have a massive amount to answer for and while the Chairman is new - he has been on the board since 2018
The kindred bodies are not without fault either, they have allowed themselves to be uninformed/hoodwinked for years. Their trust in past HRV administration has proved naive
There is nothing we can sell to get us out of this hole as the money would just go to the government (whom we all know is in just as bad a position as HRV)
It is a pity that Gina Rinehart does not love harness racing for a savior is Vics only hope
Michael Stanley appears to be the first to be making a move - well his property is on the market
Borrowing against the Melton land may not have been entirely stupid as we sort of got something for it but the big problem is that what we spent it on should not have been prizemoney and it definitely was not 'future money making infrastructure'
Paul Courts has an EXCELLENT Q&A with CEO Matt Isaacs in National Trot Guide
This is a must read
https://nationaltrotguide.com.au/qa-with-hrv-ceo/
This is the standout for me (along with the already discussed 2019 legislation which cut the legs out from under us)
HRV invested significantly to grow wagering, including through media and marketing channels. The reality is the amount of revenue generated from that hasn’t produced a return on investment.
Ultimately, harness racing as a code has to evolve to be able to stand on its feet. That’s the challenge for the industry, including HRV.
There will have to be massive cuts/closures/redundancies - there is no avoiding it
Victorian harness racing as we knew it IS OVER
There is also this Michael Howard (HRV) article (interview with the CEO) out, the format of which some may prefer
https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/art...ustainability/
[QUOTE=Messenger;77288]Michael Stanley appears to be the first to be making a move - well his property is on the market
OK , let's hope for his sake , it can be developed or used for thoroughbreds.
If we were still in harness racing & this happened in NSW , we would be rather stressed or looking to get out altogether.
The latest Pacesetter podcast has been about the crisis we find ourselves in, they would probably prefer another word
https://pacesetters.au/podcast/episo...ongue-tie-off/
It goes for a long time and rather than focus on specifics they toss around what needs to happen somewhat philosophically but I listened (and read captions :)) for the whole thing
Like myself, they are not really critical of the CEO, they understand why people are angry but are unsure how that can help if that is the underlying emotion at the rally on Sunday
They talk about the participants needing to hear a message of hope from HRV but the brutality of this situation would seem to be that such a message, in the short term, cannot be much better than "We hope we can survive"
They're fairly correct in saying that we have to look to the future rather than back although I would say that we need to remember where we went wrong in order to not make the same mistakes
I have said the kindred bodies are not without fault, after listening to Greg Sugars input and being reminded that most participants are 'time poor', it really has been the executive of these bodies that needed to be better informed/demanding to be better informed and therefore more active in steering the industry. I can think of individuals whom I will not name but I will say that they as well as HRV are major contributors to us being in this position.
The image of the sport was briefly included in the discussion and while such historic attitudes to the trots is hard to turn around, there have been some major stables that have had questionable roles in the public's poor opinion of us and of course the 3 codes in Vic are so separate as opposed to being an alliance and I still believe there are plenty in the gallops media that are happy to see our demise just like their predecessors were.
The Age is reporting on us again this afternoon. They are vultures but the Kindred Bodies would have been seeking promotion of the Sunday rally. Once again behind a paywall so I will copy and paste
I have included the start of the 'racing' story to show that we are not the only ones struggling
Victoria’s $610 million-a-year harness racing industry is facing such an “unprecedented crisis” that it is in danger of becoming a rural amateur sport, a group of key stakeholders fear.
The Victorian Harness Racing Kindred Bodies – which represents clubs, trainers and drivers in the state – is so concerned about the sport’s “precarious position” they have organised a save-our-sport rally at Lords Raceway in Bendigo on Sunday.
“We can’t carry on the way we have been going, losing millions of dollars a year,” leading trainer Anthony Butt said.
“Since 2019, the costs have escalated and the income has stayed the same, so there is a bigger and bigger gap each year between what we are earning and what we are spending.
“In any walk of life, sooner or later, that is going to come back and bite you. If we don’t do something now, it is going to be too late.”
The group says a projected $24 million loss for the 2024 financial year, a huge dip in wagering and expected cuts of more than $10 million in prize money could lead to an exodus of breeders, owners and professional trainers.
Since this masthead reported allegations on Sunday that Harness Racing Victoria had lost control of its $100 million Melton land asset, uncertainty over the sport’s professional future has spread.
It comes as HRV chairman Adam Kilgour conceded this week the board would soon sign over its 95-hectare Melton land parcel to the state government.
The board used the Melton land as collateral to borrow more than $40 million from the government in recent years to keep harness racing afloat.
In exchange for the land, the government also agreed to wipe a $41.9 million debt that HRV has carried since buying and building Melton Entertainment Park in 2009. The sport will keep the racecourse facility.
Butt said the fear now was that harness racing in Victoria, which used to be the leading precinct in Australasia, would lose its top-tier professionals, its best horses and its betting appeal, and be reduced to a rural sport for hobby trainers.
“Punters love the name drivers, the name trainers, the big guns,” Butt said.
“They like to back Chris Alford, Greg Sugars, Kate Gath and Kerryn Manning. It’s like we go to a pub on the weekend and we back James McDonald and Jamie Kah [in the gallops]. It’s only natural that the well-known names are going to generate more income.”
Butt, who is president of the Victorian Trainers & Drivers Association, said the government needed to back the sport. He said it made “a hell of a lot of money” from harness racing from taxes, such as the point of consumption wagering tax.
“The industry supports not only the participants but we support farmers who grow the feed, builders, fencers, blacksmiths, vets, horse transporters,” he said.
“We’ve got to buy cars and trucks. We’ve got to put diesel in them because we travel thousands of kilometres a year. There’s a lot of people who make money out of the industry, either directly or indirectly.”
In response to the criticism, Harness Racing Victoria chief executive Matt Isaacs released details of the industry’s revenue and cost challenges on Thursday.
“We simply spend more money to put on the show than we earn, and this has been the case since 2017,” Isaacs said.
“The surplus Melton land was set aside to help the sport in a rainy day, and it’s raining, with harness racing battling for relevancy in a crowded and declining wagering market, and without the crutch of grants from previous years.”
Isaacs said with recent government support that harness racing in Victoria was debt-free and had solvency funding for the next two financial years.
“The sport now needs to transition to standing on its own two feet,” he said.
Isaacs said the sport was cutting $12 million in operational costs, had cut $4.5 million in prize money and was changing the racing calendar – more regular races at bigger regional centres – to encourage more wagering.
Racing Minister Anthony Carbines declined to comment on what the government had planned for the Melton land. He will not be attending Sunday’s rally, which starts at 12.30pm.
RACING VICTORIA LOSS
Racing Victoria has announced it is expecting a $12 million operating loss for the 2024 financial year after a drop of more than 10 per cent in wagering across the past 12 months.
I have just started listening to this interview by Michael Felgate with the HRV Chairman and the CEO
Just listen to the start
Has there been a less impressive answer to an opening question than Adam Kilgour's answer "You Know"
https://omny.fm/shows/racin-pulse-wi...ilgour-join-rs
You could summarize the interview as 'we should have made bigger cuts much faster'.
The fact is that such cuts have / are being eased in - HRV/the Govt do not want to put hundreds of people out of work overnight.
Sadly however, I see it as nothing more than giving the hundreds that will be smart enough to leave - a bit of time to transition/go elsewhere
The only way this cannot be true is for a Messiah or some brilliant ideas
I bet a few are wishing they did a David Akein.
Smart move David.
Some light on fields at Menangle tonight maybe some Victorians will move asap.
Did anybody make it to the rally?
About 400 people! With apologies from over 200.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
Refer to the article on Harnesslink.
I will copy the post from Harness Racing in Australia when I can get to my computer
Thanks Carol (oops I forgot to look on Harnesslink)
https://harnesslink.com/australia/vi...-and-centre-2/
Four resolutions were carried unanimously calling for Minister Carbines to understand:
- Leadership and Governance Reform is needed at HRV to lead and oversee the Harness Racing Industry in Victoria.
- A commitment is needed to fast-track HRV to a low-cost administration model
- It is critical to ensure that HRV retains some form of equity share in the Melton Land to create a future fund for the Industry
- Withdraw the request for HRV to sign over the Melton Land to enable critical consultation to occur with the Harness Racing Industry
This is the post on various forums regarding yesterday's rally at Bendigo:
follow up from today’s rally. Please read below. We need EVERYONE in our industry to do this asap. Please.
We are asking all participants and stakeholders that have concerns about the current state of Harness Racing in Victoria to email their local MP, Racing Minister Anthony Carbines, Member for Melton Steve McGhie and Opposition Spokesperson for Racing Tim Bull. Its essential that participants contact these MP's
Email template is attached with suggested wording of the email.
Even better if participants can contact their MP and arrange a time to meet with them to discuss their concerns in person.
Anyone who wants a copy of the presentation delivered today can email the VHRC requesting this. Email address is vhrsc@vhrsc.com.au
—————————————————-
Urgent Action Needed to Address the Crisis in the Victorian Harness Racing Industry
Dear [Recipient's Name],
I am writing to you as a concerned participant in the Victorian Harness Racing Industry to bring to your attention the reckless financial management at Harness Racing Victoria (HRV), which now poses a significant threat to the future of our industry.
In recent years, there has been a dramatic increase in employment and administration costs at HRV, with the number of full-time employees at 30 June 2023 more than double that of Harness Racing NSW. Following substantial financial losses in 2022 and 2023, HRV has confirmed that it will record a devastating $24 million loss in the 2024 financial year. Furthermore, it has been revealed that HRV, without consulting the industry, has cashed in Harness Racing’s $100 million future fund—a 94-hectare land parcel at Melton—in an attempt to resolve its financial crisis.
This situation at HRV requires urgent attention. Without immediate intervention, there will be devastating prizemoney cuts ranging from $10 million (22%) to $18 million (40%) over the next three years. Such cuts will jeopardize the livelihoods of 5,000 industry workers and threaten the $670 million in economic contribution that our industry provides to the State of Victoria.
We urge the Racing Minister in Victoria, Anthony Carbines, to take immediate action to support the Harness Racing Industry by introducing the following measures:
1. Leadership and Governance Reform: There is a clear need for new leadership at HRV to lead and oversee the recovery process and restore confidence in the governance of the industry.
2. Adopt a Low-Cost Administration Model: A commitment to fast-tracking HRV to a low-cost administration model in Victoria is essential to reduce the magnitude of proposed prizemoney cuts.
3. Retain an Equity Share in the Melton Land: It is critical for Harness Racing to maintain an equity share in the Melton land to ensure a future fund for the sustainability of the Industry.
4. Withdraw the Request for HRV to sign over ownership of the Melton Land: Consultation with the Harness Racing Industry has not taken place on the Melton Land deal and its critical that the Industry be consulted prior to losing their future fund.
We trust that you will support our cause and advocate for the necessary changes that Harness Racing in Victoria urgently requires. Your support is crucial to ensuring the long-term viability of our industry and the livelihoods of those who depend on it.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Yours sincerely,
[Your Name]
Also the list of MP's addresses for your reference:
https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Tw&oe=66D1AF76
Thanks Carol
I cannot see pt. 3 and 4 happening because the Government itself is so broke (this could well have been the reason for the 2019 changes to the Statutory Bodies having to return proceeds of asset sales to the gov)
For pt.1 The CEO is new so I am not sure that he should go and I think he is trying to do pt.2
Has it been made clear whether the comparisons to NSW are fair - do their numbers include Menangle/the Menangle Club
I wonder if there were some participants Not at the meeting as they might wonder whether being seen at the rally could have repercussions
The figures are taken from the last annual reports published by both Vic and NSW and do not include either Melton or Menangle so it is a level playing fieldQuote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
There were over 200 apologies received - I'm sure there were some who did not attend for possible repercussions. Attendees were a pretty fair representation of owners, breeders, trainers, drivers, bookmakers and other industry participants, spanning from young participants to those who have been in the industry for many many years.
Thanks again Carol
When I say Menangle Club, I am meaning Menangle as a whole - track etc, for there have been some claims that the entire staff for Menangle are not included in HRNSW figures whereas I thought Melton racing would have to be included in HRV's figures
I think I see what you mean now - the table below that shows the comparisons and lists staff excluding Melton and Menangle
(somebody sent it to me as little Stevie Cleve threw a hissy fit and banned me from AHRI group fb page 12mths ago)
So are the Employment costs also excluding the metro tracks?
I have been retired for 10yrs but the money seems pretty good when averaged out
HRV 103 staff @ $152,427
HRNSW 50 staff @ $142,000 (amazing how that averages so neatly)
One of our members has been fantastic at sending me information
The following 2 graphs show how the wheels have fallen off since 2019
How did they not put the brakes on!
Instead they just borrowed and borrowed
Any news since the rally
I look on the Victorian Harness Racing Club fb page but don't find anything new
(The page itself seems to have gremlins - sometimes it splits their latest post and show no comments, sometimes it is whole and has 4 comments attributed to it)
I doubt a $30k race should be run at Ballarat on a Thursday night (but I am looking forward to it)
https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fi...24#BAC05092407
SOLD yesterdayQuote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
It has been over 2 weeks since the rally and I have not seen any news/updates. I am thinking that the parties must be meeting behind the scenes.
We all know that the timing is particularly bad as we are heading into breeding season and it is plausible that they have agreed to put everything on hold for the (supposed) good of the industry but I cannot imagine all the kindred bodies hanging fire for months
Shane Gloury provided this update on the AHRI FB site earlier this week:Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
The Minister for Racing has been provided with a copy of the video from the day of the rally and the kindred bodies have been in regular contact with his office. We are aiming to have a meeting with the Minister in the next fortnight. We have also been in regular contact with the Opposition Spokesperson for Racing Tim Bull who has been helpful. We are also hearing that local MPs have been receiving plenty of meeting requests and emails from concerned Harness Racing participants. We will keep everyone informed as developments unfold.
Thanks Carol, as I have said many times, that wonderful little man Steve Cleve banned me from there for ZERO reasons (I have a transcript of the exchange if anybody was ever interested)
Looking at the Kilmore fields for their cup day made me ponder whether Vic should become the 'trotting state' (even more so than it already is) as only $25k was needed to attract as good a field for the Trotters Cup as the $75k could muster for the Pacing Cup
How does turnover stack up on trots races compared to pacing races?
https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fi...24#KIC27092411
More cuts announced yesterday
https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/art...ustainability/
This includes
February’s A. G. Hunter Cup will be reduced from $500,000 to $350,000, while the 2025 Victoria Cup and Great Southern Star will be reduced from $300,000 to $250,000. These are part of $1 million in savings across 46 features. The updated key race calendar for the 2024-25 financial year can be viewed here.
HRV will cease breeders’ bonuses, responding to feedback that money was better allocated to base prizemoney.
A single-tier Vicbred first win bonus will be introduced, with a flat $5000 bonus for two and three-year-olds and $3000 for four-year-olds. These changes collectively save the industry $1.7 million.
Regular prizemoney allocations will be adjusted to align more closely with wagering revenue, including the lowest race band starting at $4000 (previously $4500). Those allocations will be continually reviewed against revenue, with sustained positive wagering results to be returned to prizemoney.
Not much detail on race stakes.
I have always thought that $4,500 races were hard done by as they would seem to me to attract as much turnover as $7,000+ races so cutting them to $4,000 seems harsh but maybe I am wrong (plus the -$500 is not that noticeable as the stake still starts with a 4)
Notice how they are reducing the first win bonus from 12k to 5k saying that participants have told them this money would be better spent on general prize money. But they have also reduced general prize money !
This cut will devastate the breeding industry. And they announce it just at the start of the breeding season. Surely any decrease in the first win bonus should be introduced over time, foals born this year should be the ones reduced to the 5k bonus. People have bred foals and paid up to a promise of 12k for pure Vicbred foals thus this should be honored by the board.
I wonder how the ACCC would view this as we are not getting what was promised when we paid up ?
Very good point Rick. All cuts and no mention of how they propose to improve turnover, I cannot see how Victoria is not gawn!
I have posted the following on the HRV fb page under a Vic Cup competition story as they are not going to report yesterdays real news
More cuts announced yesterday. The CEO is saying that we lose $45k a race - seriously?! How is it that the Board of HRV has not resigned?! $4,500 races are being reduced (no doubt along with some other tiers) but we can still have two $20k Oaks heats on Saturday night to just reduce the pathetic 16 entrants down to 12. The Derby numbers are not much better and one stable has just about half the entrants. Punters do not look at how much the horses are racing for, there is no way that $4,500 races are the problem (other than already being too hard for owners to make a return on). If Victoria is to survive, HRV need to come up with more than just cuts. Get some ideas people, listen to ALL participants and try and inspire some confidence that it is worth staying in Vic harness racing
We believe Club Menangle to have plenty of money invested thanks to the HP sale but what about WA and QLD - how can we be going so badly if they're supposedly OK
How are we affording six $10k races at Geelong tonight?
Paul Campbell has done a half hour interview with the CEO which can be found on his fb page or the HRV fb page
https://www.facebook.com/harnessracingvictoria
It can be summarized in one sentence : We have had to stop living beyond our means
I find it scary that whether we remain relevant or not all comes down to betting turnover
Can the board please resign - they have overseen a disaster and should have the grace to move on and let us see if someone else can do better
We never hear from the CEO until after cuts are made. Where is the consultation with participants ? He claims they consult but the bodies deny they were consulted. All we want to hear from him is his resignation .
They people that sent us broke are not the ones that will put us back on the right path.
Hey Rick, don't you think that the Chairman and the Board should be resigning?
I think there egos will let them in case it reads as failure on their resumes.
Some have been around long enough to have categorically failed!
I believe the CEO's predecessors sent us broke and we are so close to dead in the water, it isn't funny. I think he can't really consult because the kindred bodies would not accept what has to be done to give us a slim chance of surviving. I am not saying I like it but I understand it and we DO need to hear some ideas to provide some confidence that HRV have more up their sleeve than just cuts.
I hate going on the HRV fb page seeing 75% of the posts being tips from people that I did not realize were expert tipsters
It gives me the feel of an organization that would be happy for their mother to blow her pension on the punt :(
No wonder Turnover has declined
The favourites in the 6 Gp1's on Saturday night
$1.65, $1.35, $2.30, $1.20, $1.60, $1.04
Think about it! How laughable it would be to see this at the gallops
https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fi...s/?mc=MX121024
In The Age today
Butt believes an agreed sale would achieve two crucial goals: It would settle the sport’s debt with the state government, and it would allow HRV to retain 63ha of its Melton land to help future-proof the sport
Interesting however due to the 2019 legislation, I don't see how the proceeds of the 63ha ever go to harness
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/raci...04-p5kfzl.html
The VHRC fb page is also excited about the above (I seem to be the only one concerned about the 2019 legislation) and also posted the following
While the VHRC acknowledges that stakemoney cuts were, unfortunately, inevitable given the financial mess that HRV has got the Industry into, we strongly condemn the lack of meaningful consultation by HRV with the very stakeholders most affected. At no stage did HRV engage with the VHRC, the kindred body that represents owners. Owners are critical to Harness Racing and make the decision to invest in and race Standardbred horses. This lack of consultation and communication continues a troubling trend under the current regime at HRV.