Thanks TripleV123,
I had the farms mixed up, the Warwick stud is the farm I was refering to. Beautiful surroundings for a couple of stallions.
Hi Mango, You want to drive to see a bloke drop his pants? Hmmmmmmmmm:)
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Thanks TripleV123,
I had the farms mixed up, the Warwick stud is the farm I was refering to. Beautiful surroundings for a couple of stallions.
Hi Mango, You want to drive to see a bloke drop his pants? Hmmmmmmmmm:)
Na but i would drive down there if he was to wear the same dress Shirley Bassey wore whilst singing Hey Big Spender that would be a classic. And if you new Triplev123 you would understand. It would be a youtube hit.
Geeze thanks Mango. Put me on the spot why don't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by mango
First off, I'm probably the worst person you could ask this question of as I'm just not a Rocknroll Hanover fan, though many may well see that as verging on Heretic thinking.
I do however really like Rock N Roll Heaven and I like his grandsire Western Ideal as well as his late sire, Western Hanover (I've got a lovely water colour of him here on the wall in my office) and in turn his sire No Nukes. Go back a step & there's old mate Oil Burner. Never liked him. Nasty bastard.
I'm not a Mach Three fan either but how could you go past Somebeachsomewhere, what a great horse. I liked Mach Three's sire Matt's Scooter but never cared for his sire Direct Scooter. Call me fickle. :p
While I think of it, I just don't buy either of those size assessments nor for that matter do I believe any of the others that I read or am told.
Somehow, magically....they're ALL 15.3h !!!!!!!!
The reason I say that is IMO there's 15.3 and there's 15.3.
For example, two very prominent sires here in the Southern Hemisphere are listed in their advertising as being 15.3... yet to my eye they're about as alike size wise as Courage Under Fire and Melpark Major.
Forget about what the ad. blurb says Mango. Go have a look at both of them & make up your own mind what size they are.
Ok, so I've dicked about and have danced around answering your question long enough.
Hand on Heart, God's honest truth, I'd go with Rock N Roll Heaven. He was the real deal & then some & I just can't see him missing either in NY State or more to the point, here in NSW.
Well let's just hope they both come out so i get the chance to take a good look and make my mind up.
Somebeachsomewhere is the King !
If you had to have your last dollar on any horse in the last 10 years it would have to be him. Equal fastest pacer of all time at 3, leading all the way.
Had a lovely filly by him but lost her in a paddock accident. A beautiful big stong filly, the best that I have bred. The mare is only small, however Somebeachsomewhere put plenty of size into the foal.
Have another mare in foal to him this year. Will definately be going back to him again.
Hi Love Of Courage
Sorry to hear about the death of your filly, what did you end up doing with your yearling's.
Geeze, how bloody horrible LOC. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Terrible stuff. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Love Of Courage
Attachment 15Hello & thank you for your kind thoughts This was my Somebeachsomewhere filly. She fractured her leg in a paddock accident.Plates were inserted and things were going very well until infection set in and I lost her.
Mango I still have 2 of my 3 yearlings for sale from the Brisbane Auction. I have a nice Artsplace yearling colt closely related to Ransom Olds that I will be bringing over from NZ.
Enjoy the posts from you guys it is very informative.
Regards,
Sue
Hi Sue,
Always sad to hear of these things happening.
A few week ago I was reading another forum and one fellow that had been breeding for 20 years had lost 2 foals in just acouple of days.
It was the first time he had ever lost a foal and he was terribly upset about it. I felt very sorry for him, but it could have just been his turn after 20 years of good luck.
I'm hoping for 20 years of his kind of luck:)
Given the right mare I would breed to Mach Three, Somebeachsomewhere no one should disagree on this horse.
TripleV123, how many breeders actually take a drive to look first hand at the stallion they are breeding to?
G'day justdoit,
This is a significantly nicer subject than arguing the toss with Buster. Thanks.
I reckon nowhere near as many people go for a drive to have a look as should do and I can't talk because I've most certainly been guilty of not doing so too. :(
Interestingly, the last couple of crops that we've bred have come from sires where the circumstances at the time conspired to allow either myself or all of us to have a really good look at and I think on type they're two of the best overall groups we've put on the ground. :)
Most seasons you will get 1 or maybe 2 that, in terms of a comparison ot the rest of your foals, you would probably give back if given the chance...but not last year nor this time around. I'd like to think that's more than just coincidence but who knows? Maybe it was just arse. :confused:
I think the 'not laying eyes on the sire' aspect is an inherent & significant drawback with semen transport. It's just so easy to roll up and order like you were going through a McDonald's drive through. I don't have a clean slate in that regard either...and in similar moments of reflection I doubt there is a semen transport reliant breeder anywhere in the entire country who could hand on heart say that they've stood beside every single sire they've ever bred a mare to and gone over him with a fine toothed comb.
For example, we bred a mare to Bettor's Delight via frozen semen very, very early on in the piece on the basis of applying what I was told about the horse via phone call to his trainer Scott McEneny. He told me the type of mare he thought we should put to BD and said if we did that...quote "The horse will do the rest". That foal turned out really good & he's now over in the US being prepped for the $200,000 George Morton Levy at Yonkers in March and they think they're a real chance of getting the $. Maybe I got it right, maybe we were just lucky. I don't know.
I think that whole thing was THE major problem that plagued frozen semen in the early days. I think it's quite possible that alot of well meaning breeders went with a large % of unsuitable sire/mare combinations on the basis that they'd not seen the sire/s? I had a go with Astreos over a Torado Hanover mare on that basis...no good on type and never made the track, and again... guilty as charged. :(
Fast forwarding and though I'm not a particularly big fan of the Trotters, I think that Muscle Hill was the ants pants. My brother has a piece of a Trotting mare and I guess one day she'll be bred to a horse like that though her trainer is not surprisingly a big fan of his sire, Muscles Yankee. She's a nice looking mare, very good gaited etc. but does she suit either of them on type? I've not got the faintest idea. History seeks to repeats itself? :p
the gallops blokes would love this, very big on type
imo type is very important because of smaller tracks/training tracks and alot of big money in early life means they've got to be well enough put together to run early- too expensive waiting for a horse to grow into itself
triple v - aestros and torado hanover also duds as stallions? maybe the type of the horse is just an excuse? (but without seeing the horse your talking about obviously), just as every time you see a small horse thats no good its excuse is its size - more likely is its excuse is it has no motor or will to test the pain barrier
Dunno Buster. You've got all the answers. You tell me.
Incidentally, Astreos was a major disappointment but Torado Hanover was not a dud as a sire, quite the opposite in fact. Given the opportunities he got he was quite outstanding. Sinbad Bay, Jane Ellen, My Cherie, Albuquerque, Harley Hanover etc (the winners of over $17mil). His daughters have left Safari, Adams Mate, Atomic Ark, Northern Brewer, Deanna Troy, Arkamigo, Daman, Hilton Fly High etc (winners of some $21.4mil & counting). That's hardly the work of a dud.
hes a dud
Ahuh. Buster, are you a member of The Flat Earth Society by any chance?
"Today is a big day in America. Only 36,000 people lost their jobs today." —Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid.
explains alot about you if you follow that adage
It is taken from the 10 dumbest political statements of 2010 Buster. Try not to be complete dunce for your entire life.
Back to the horses boy's or lay the bet and get on with it.
Ok Dad. :p
Makers Mark, a case (6) is $267.25 at Dan Murphy's.
Are you in or out Buster?
I think we got off subject here .
Hi Fullerton
Now that Rocknroll Hanover has gone up in price will he still get a full book over there and just out of interest how do the Well Said foals look, I noticed he was fully booked way before the year kicked off. I see the sign up for Heaven as fully booked but as i can gather he was fully booked a while ago as i think in one of your previous posts on another thread you wanted to send 3 mare's to him but could only get 1 mare in.
I only got one of my mares in because there was such a long list they only picked the cream of the crop, I'm not offended but would have liked to get one more to him. As far as Hanover my opinion is they raised his price to reduce his book ,with all the RnR hanovers in the sales it was watering down the stock as a result the sales of his babies suffered also the Medowlands situation will hurt. My question is will the price of Hanover being much lower down under hurt him in the U.S? Have not been able to see and of the Well Said babies.
Hi Fullerton
I don't see his price being lower down here hurting him in any way. He has had only 2 crops to race in the U.S and has produced some great horses so the demand for his stock will be great. The other way to look at it if you have a couple of nice mare's you could send them to Heaven and get 2 (Heaven) for the price of 1(Hanover).
Well I wanted to go to Heven with all my mares but I could not get them in. I just think this horse is going to be something real special in the breeding shed. I have been around racing for a long long time and this horse is just different.
Hi Fullerton
Thats a shame that you couldn't get a few more mare's into him and as a guess i'd say there are alot of other people that missed out due to Heaven been so popular. I hope the mare you got in foal throws a champion for you. Have you pre booked for next year.
I have pre booked my one mare . I think she will be in cycle soon as she was not in foal last year due to a late foal previously. It stinks only letting 140 breedings. But it's probably good for the sport. Thanks Mango for the support.
Hi Fullerton
With breeding only 140 mare's that means there will be only 100-110 live foals on the ground which doesn't seem like a great deal for a stallion each year. But the other way to look at it if you have 1 of those live foals it could be worth a few $$$ at the sale's.
I've seen RnR Hanover ... he's a huge, hulking horse ...
I think he'll work pretty well over my Artsplace mare (apart from the obvious success of that cross). She's medium-sized, very good-gaited and correct. It wouldn't hurt to add a bit of width and bulk to her foals.
It'll be interesting to see his fee when/if he heads down here.
Hey Ben
You have a nice mare to send to him and that cross has been gold in the states and it will be ineteresting what his fee will be. 2 other horses to put size into there progeny that i have seen are Western Ideal and Somebeachsomewhere.
We have 2 colt foals by RnR Hanover out of Artsplace mares. Both are outstanding types , correct , and have a fair bit of size about them.
Rocknroll Heaven 2010
3yr old colt/gelding of the year
Pacer of the year
Horse of the year
Was there any doubt.
Congratulations to the owners, you are living my dream:)
I'd say there living everyone's dream
Has anyone heard anymore about these 2 great horses comming out and what service they will attract. My guess is as follows.
Heaven $10,000
Hanover $12,000
News has gone quite has anyone heard anything on RN Hanover comming or have they hit a snag.
There's a fair bit of Cat & Mouse stuff going on Mango.
Believe the respective fees are...
Rocknroll Hanover $13,200 incl. GST
Rock N Roll Heaven $11,000 incl. GST
Interesting i thought they might of been at least a $1000 below them prices but i suppose the budget will get stretched again.
Pepper Tree set to Rock N Roll
Heaven sent news for breeders
Thursday 17 March 2011
The Dan Patch Horse of the Year Award has an Aussie feel to it as Pepper Tree Farm announces details of Rock N Roll Heavens arrival in 2011.
Australians mightnt have won the principal Oscars at this years Academy Awards ceremony in Los Angeles on February 27, but the U.S. Harness Writers Association awards, presented the same evening in Florida, proved a triumph for Cowra based Pepper Tree Farm, the future home of Rock N Roll Heaven.
Late last year Rock N Roll Heaven had been named best male 3YO pacer by the harness writers, but in the voting for the major awards- the Best Film Oscar equivalents- at last months banquet, he received 127 of a possible 131 votes to become Pacer of the Year, and 123 votes to become the Dan Patch U.S. Horse of the Year.
While those wins were widely anticipated, they were nevertheless hugely satisfying for Pepper Tree Farms Rob and Julie Van Dyke, who were following the USTA website much more closely than the millions watching television coverage of those other awards.
Just prior to last years Little Brown Jug, Pepper Tree Farm had reached agreement with connections for the Southern Hemisphere stud rights for the star colt which, after winning the famous race in world record time, would go on to complete a ten-race win streak through to seasons end at the Breeders Crown.
We have been following the career of this great horse for some time and are thrilled for his owners, Mr Frank Bellino and his son Joe, that he has added the prestigious Little Brown Jug to his impressive list of career wins, said Rob Van Dyke at the time.
His wins today showed his outstanding speed and toughness and we are truly excited that Rock N Roll Heaven will stand at Pepper Tree Farm next season.
Following Februarys award, that level of excitement would more likely be described as justifiably or tremendously. How about unbelievably?
Some details of Rock N Roll Heavens racing career will quickly dispel any charges that the writer is guilty of exaggerated praise.
He was a classy two-year-old, never unplaced in nine starts, winning the New Jersey Sires Final and the Bluegrass Stakes, and setting a world record 1:50.6 on a five-eighth track. He was runner-up in the Governors Cup and the $1 million Metro Pace (in 1:49.4) behind Sportswriter, whom he will join at Pepper Tree come September.
His three-year-old season was something else again. He won 16 of 21 starts, for $2.15 million, including the Jug, the Tattersalls Stakes, the Battle of Brandywine, the Messenger Stakes and, finally and fittingly, the Breeders Crown.
Bruce McAvaney, an old hand at the trots, would have described the Little Brown Jug victory as special.
In his elimination, he raced in the death for the first half of the race before forging to the lead and running away untouched in 1:49.4, which set a new Jug record and equalled the world 3YO half-mile record set two years previously by Somebeachsomewhere , which also became Horse-of-the-Year.
In the final, less than two hours later, he led most of the way to win by lengths, matching his elimination time for a record two-heat time of 3:38.8, lowering Shadow Plays record set in the 2008 Jug.
Rock N Roll Heaven achieved more sub-1:50 wins in 2010 than any horse in history, and more sub-1:50 miles in a season- 17 of his 21 race starts- than any horse before him.
The list of those with 10 or better in a season includes Lis Mara, Won The West, Boulder Creek, Riyadh, Jennas Beach Boy and Somebeachsomewhere, the only other three-year-old. Its a select group.
Extreme speed is an essential requirement for the kind of greatness achieved by this horse. In the Breeders Crown Final, he hit the three-quarter marker in 1:19.4, on the way to a soft 1:49 win, and his career record is 1:47.6 at the Meadowlands. But its matched by true toughness, says his trainer Bruce Saunders.
I think his toughness and competitiveness is what separated him from a lot of the horses hes raced against.
Hes had a couple of races where they really wanted to battle with him.
Hes happy to hook somebody and fight tooth and nail, thats his toughness. Ive worn out the word tenacious but thats what it is, hes a fighter.
A good example of this was his win in the Bluegrass Stakes. After doing a lot of work early, he seemed vulnerable when arch-rival Razzle Dazzle ranged up to him, but sensing the other horse there and then spotting it, he picked up the bit again and kicked away.
Rock N Roll Heaven is a son of Rocknroll Hanover (by Western Ideal from broodmare gem Rich N Elegant), the 2005 U.S. 3YO and overall Horse-of-the-Year, which is currently rewriting the siring records in the U.S. with his first two crops.
His dam Artistic Vision, which took a 1:50.2 race record in winning over $600,000 (shes the dam also of Clear vision 1:49.6) is an Artsplace sister to millionaire Armbro Animate. His fourth dam TMI is a full-sister to No Nukes, which is the grandsire of Western Ideal.
The evolution of sires in this branch of the Western Hanover sireline is very rapid, much in the mould of modern thoroughbreds. From 1993 when Western Hanover first stood at stud, weve moved on to Western Ideal, Rocknroll Hanover and now Rock N Roll Heaven in 2011, four generations in just 18 years.
Rock N Roll Heaven is currently standing his first season at Blue Chip Farms to a full book, and the exceptional fertility level indicated by the requisite testing has been confirmed so far, with his first mares tested pronounced in foal, at an early stage of the season.
When he shuttles to Pepper Tree in September this year, it will be the first time a current U.S. Horse of the Year has arrived here for stud duties.
Thats an exciting prospect for not only Pepper Tree Farm, but for the breeding industry in this country.
Pepper Tree Farm has announced that the service fee for Rock N Roll Heaven has been set at $11,000 including GST, with 10% discount for two mares and 15% for three or more mares.
There is no doubt that this is a major coup for Australia, which is certain to be reflected in outstanding support from breeders right round the country.
By the way, the real hero in this years Best Film, Lionel Logue, was an Aussie!
Harness Racing NSW (HRNSW) is the controlling body for harness racing in New South Wales with responsibility for commercial and regulatory management of the industry including 31 racing clubs across the State. HRNSW is headed by an industry-appointed Board of Directors and is independent of Government.
To arrange an interview or for further information please contact:
Name:
Dale Walker
Position:
Marketing Manager
Phone:
(02) 9722 6600
Email:
dwalker@hrnsw.com.au
Yeah read that it's in the breeding section of today's trotguide, now we will just have to wait to see what they do put out about RN Hanover. When reading about Heaven you can't find a fault anywhere, great race horse out of a good race mare who has thrown 2 for 2, hopefully Mr Bellino can make it 3 for 3 with his Bettor's filly.
oh yeah a real 'heaven for breeders' at 11k for a first season stallion, they are out of this world for that much money..better hope you dont get a filly paying that
ps - nice of hrnsw to give pepper tree some free advertising - do they do stories on all the new stallion this year?
Hi Buster
Speaking with a couple of mate's who were interested in going to him said 1st season should only be about $8800 and then when he proves then go up as Art Major, M3 and others have. There worry with spending that sought of money is the horse himself isn't overly big so if your looking to sell and you get a small bay filly you won't even get your service fee back and due to his size there's a fair chance of that happening. My personal opinion is i might send one there and hope for the best but i'll have to pick the right mare on breeding and size to help my chances.