Printable View
Hi Love of Courage
As of last week there still had not been pen to paper for the deal, so i was told by a gentleman who was speaken to some Americans about other stallions. But i like you have my fingers crossed that he comes out and i hope Mightymo is on the mark with his service fee $12.5k and no more.
I'm hoping Shark Gesture comes down here..... but given the connections of the horse I'll not be holding my breath, they're not the easiest crew to get along with. I reckon coming to a reasonable arrangement with Norman Smiley to stand the horse down here would be up there with brokering a complete cessation of hostilities deal between Israel and Hamas.:p
Hey Triple
You would think people would want to do a deal for there stallion to come down for 2 reasons. First they make more money and second more foals on the ground know matter where they are can only be good to get the stallion up and running with winners on the board. The problem would also be there asking price as it seems they wan't top $$$$ for all of them to come out here and with so many stallions out here already it's going to be hard to get your outlay back in a hurry unless they are priced right. If he was to come to Aus what price do you think he should be at to attract good books of mare's.
Shark Gesture served around 44 mares with 18 foals at around the $5,000 mark from memory with no real hoopla now with his FFA record after returning to the track will makes him get more than just the one pass over by breeders, price for mine $3,000 to many good horses around $5,000. Did he have fertility issues when first at stud in the US? boy Cam's Card Sharks top 10 list is impressive so there is no reason Shark Gesture wouldn't cross well down here and be viable.
He was a shy breeder Nat, at least he was when he came down here the first time. Low libido, he would rather eat grass than jump a mare. Maybe things have changed since then and the crew at Kentuckiana would know of course but I doubt they're telling. I hope that has changed and that he comes down again because he is without doubt THE TOUGHEST HORSE that I have seen in a long, long time. Serious hard arse with all the trimmings.
If you get a chance watch You Tube footage of George Brennan and Tim Tetrick stoking him up and putting him on the front end. Talk about never say die. I'd not think twice about supporting the horse, especially so with the aim of the resultant progeny racing at Menangle. That is exactly what you need. We've got a current 2yo filly by him that unfortunately will not race because of a bad knee but she shows her old man's influence in spades. She's as tough as a well done Elephant Rump Steak.
I liked him when he came out but dint have the mare or cash to go to him at the time and when he started racing again and emerged as a force in the FFA ranks my heat sunk he has always been a handy horse no flash in the pan nice blood good record, they just need to put the right price on him and he could breed 100+ if he's up to it.
Hi Nat
For Shark Gesture to get 100+ mare's they would have to price him right for sure and i still think he would struggle as people know he has already been out here and struggled to get mare's in foal.
He didn't struggle to get mares in foal per se Mango, there wasn't anything wrong with him fertility wise, rather it was just didn't give a whole lot semen volume wise.
Quite a few sires in this part of the world, and notably 2 or 3 of the higher profile ones, are permanently or have periodically been that way inclined.
Thanks for that info Triple, it does put a question mark on him comming out again if that is the case.
To be fair, that issue was back when he was a straight off the track 4yo & it could just as easily have gone away by now Mango. I guess it will be a few more months before the current season's mares served data from the US/CAN becomes available and that'll tell the story one way or the other. As I alluded to earlier, I think the biggest stumbling block to his return to Oz or perhaps to NZ for the first time is much more likely to be Old Mate in Boca Raton, FL. I seriously doubt a particularly in-depth understanding and appreciation of the Southern Hemisphere breeding industry landscape is present & as such I'd bet my Cojones that telephone numbers are wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mango
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston
Mango and Winston
I was never trying to compare Art Official to Somebeachsomewhere but I was trying to defend all the breeders that bred to the horse and the owners that invested heavily in the horse. Triplev123 was doing everything he could to knock the horse and in this breeding business that should not happen.
If you cannot say something good about a horse do not say anything. Yes have your own opinions but based on factual info not innuendo.
If Triplev123 was a horseman of any note he would never have even tried to compare any horse that is currently standing with Somebeachsomewhere as there isn’t any horse on the planet that looks as good as Somebeachsomewhere. He is on his own as an individual and possibly one of the greatest lookers and racehorse that we have ever seen.
I am currently in North America and have just been to see Art Official and taken some photos today and I am telling you I am not a good photographer but I have taken not bad shots. A professional will do a lot better but the photos will show you what the horse currently looks like. He is a standout individual and has great conformation.
The point I like to make here is that even today there has never been a so called professional conformation shot taken of Art Official to show just what a great looker he is. Hard to believe if you want to get the mares today you have to expose your horse to the breeders!
How can you get mares to a horse when he is not promoted well and you have so called breeders and talkers on forums like Triplev 123 trying to knock the horse sight unseen?
As an individual Art Official was always a very good looking racehorse and I was with the horse the night he last raced and right then you knew he would let down to a very impressive type.
He certainly looked good today and like Jonathan McNeil (Stud master in New Zealand that managed the breeding of Art Official) said when ever any breeder looked at the horse they always booked in.
I hope you enjoy the photos. It is the best I could do to show you the horse at present.
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1306992880.jpg
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1306993001.jpg
Here are just a couple of facts that some of you probably do not know about Art Official:
- Art Official p3;1:47: $2,085,185 is Art Major’s fastest and richest son to date
- Art Official was sold for US$2,75 million as a Sire. Who needs to knock the horse?
- Art Major’s fastest time as a three year old was 1:50.1s so Art Official was a massive 3.1 seconds faster than his Sire.
- Art Official came back as a four year old and went 1:47.4 to make him one of only a handful of horses that have paced in sub 1:48 two years in a row.
- No doubt Art Official had amazing speed and was extremely tough as the video of him beating Somebeachsomewhere in the $1m Meadowlands Pace shows.
- This race was not a one off situation as the driver of Art Official Ron Pierce claims that he felt that he could have beaten him again but the owners of Somebeachsomewhere never allowed the horse to race against him again.
- Art Official has a pedigree to match his brilliance and been out of a Falcon Seelster mare should attracted a lot of breeders in New Zealand and Australia if they have done there homework.
- Art Official has super fertility and has bred just on 100 mares (Two crops)in North America at a fee of $6000 which I thought was way too high. Probably full books if fee was a little lower.
- Art Official bred some special mares in North America including one of the world’s greatest and richest mares called Eternal Camnation 1:49.2 and $4,129,390 in stakes.
- With all this info and the record etc and the looks and conformation what more would a breeder want?
- If this horse had been priced right and promoted right he should have served a huge book of mares in New Zealand and Australia.
John Curtin
Hi John
Thanks for getting the pics it's much appreciated.
#57 from Nat initially states.....17 for Art official seems a bit said wouldhave been DA MAN in the US if it wasn't for the freak SBSW, cannot fathom those numbers I rate him is it the Falcon Seelster in him?
#59 from myself in response... Very ordinary type Nat, at least to my eye anyway. For mine, watching him pacing along with SBSW was like watching a Ford Taurus pulling alongside a Lamborghini Gallardo.
#61 is your extended rant in response to the two line comment above, one which served to take things to a new level. Subsequent events are on your head John.
#62 from myself states... JC, if you're saying that with a straight face then youneed to get yourself along to OPSM for I fear that you may be suffering from Macular Degeneration or otherwise, Glaucoma. I have got an Optometrist mate whoworks at their Castle Hill store and can get you in any time you like. Please consider it in any case. Eyesight is a very precious thing and we need to takecare of it. This was followed by #63& #64, again both from myself, in which I offered clear comparison pictures of the horses being discussed.
In your latest effort, #91, you not only seek to spin more furiously than Warney ever did on a 4th & 5th day pitch in Islamabad but also doa little re-inventing of history along the way.
For starters, see #57. I didn’t raise the initial comparison of SBSW and AO. Another person did. I merely subsequently commented upon it from my viewpoint.
Back to #91 you state...[Triplev123was doing everything he could to knock the horse and in this breeding businessthat should not happen.]
Nah, go back and read through this thread again. That’s not the case at all. I made one comment in reply to #57... and as to the way I see things...and nothing else. Up until that point this could not possibly be construed as anything of the sort which you’ve alleged in brackets above.
However, undaunted in #61 and almost surely at the behest of your masters, you seized upon that comment like a ravenous seagull on a hot chip cast errantly upon the Corso& went to work.
In response to the various claims made in #61 it was with #63 & #64 that I offered some very clear & concise pictorial evidence to support my view and so refute yours.
Now, some two weeks later and rather interestingly,in your latest post, #91, all of a sudden you’ve plucked from the air the statement [ IfTriplev123 was a horseman of any note he would never have even tried to compare any horse that is currently standing with Somebeachsomewhere as there isn’t any horse on the planet that looks as good as Somebeachsomewhere. He is on his own as an individual and possibly one of the greatest lookers and racehorse that we have ever seen.]
I don’t understand. Now you’re taking the new position that it is unfair to offer the photos I did in that one instance to compare AO to SBSW, the original comparison made..........and yet in message #61 you were all for AO being a stunner and him being the image of Art Major??
The logic of your current position has me completely baffled.
Does it not mean that nobody can fairly compare SBSW to ANY other sire in terms of type?
If so John, are you not in fact completely supporting my original comment made way back in #51. i.e the Ford Taurus vs Lamborghini Gallardo?
COMMENT 71
Hi Mango
The Seelster comment was to the fact of abundance of Seelster mare down under, no one will care what the stallion looks like as long as his progeny can run and you would think Art Official's record would speak for its self
I made this as I rate him and I have 2 Seelster mares and it puts me out as I dont like breeding that close I infact attempted to breed to Art Major for the Art Official cross
Wasnt Art Official rumoured to be a knee puncher? That can be a major turn off.
Here are some more images:
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1307016075.jpg
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1307015514.jpg
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1307015843.jpg
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1307015894.jpg
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1307015784.jpg
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1307016131.jpg
http://media.live.harnesslink.com/im...1307016187.jpg
Despite your vitriol...I'll stick by my word.
It's the least that I can do for a fellow human being who is clearly suffering.
The offer stands JC. Next time you're in Sydney, grab a Hire car and take a spin up to Castle Hill OPSM.
The Glaucoma and Macular Degeration check up can be done on a mates rates basis, I will make sure it is. Happy to vouch for you.
Btw, I understand you're in the US at the moment. May I suggest a stop-over in the UK and more specifically, in Wales during your return?
That way you could also get some pics of AO's dam.
She's currently in foal to Doonbeg I believe. Cost just $1,500 back in 2006. Lot 89 in the Tattersalls Mixed Sale. http://www.tattersallsredmile.com/ts...61-90.html?a=1
Btw I also see...and let it be noted very much to my surprise... that there was no launch into Gtrain from you for his comment re AO's gait????.
It's not an aspect I can speak on with any authority but I thought for sure there'd at least be some level of public admonishment of Gtrain & a subsequent denial of same from your good self? You're slipping JC. Too many late nights with Kelvin. They're doing you no good at all. :rolleyes:
While I'll agree (IMHO) that there is not a horse out there as beautifully gaited as Somebeachsomewhere, I personally know how hurtful it can be for even the smallest negative comment to be directed at a horse one owns or has been associated with. That's why I try to stick to statistics only and refrain from strong personal opinions...
Hi NatQuote:
Originally Posted by nat
Yes there is an abundance of Falcon mare's but there are a hell of a lot of other line's down here that he would match, if you go back and read my post you will notice i said having Falcon in him is a good thing. The reason why he didn't attract a lot of mare's was his service fee $$ and i'll stand by that. If you read JC's post you will notice he is of the same opinion.
Hi Flashing Red
I was just wondering if you have any yearling's by Flashing Red and if so how'd they break in for you.
Just one at the moment. One died during foaling and the other the mare died through the pregnancy overnight (I've mentioned that one before). So we have been unlucky. :( The one we do have was a poddy foal. She has the best personalty (she's one of my favorites) and took to breaking in very easily. She looks to be a nice mover, does not look like she is going to touch anywhere etc but obviously as yearlings they're not breaking any records at the training track yet! A friend of mine (trainer-driver) also has a Flashing Red filly and she has also been very pleased with her. Some people who have some in NZ messaged me on Facebook out of the blue a while ago and also said how pleased they were. From the photos I have seen, most of them look very similar, they definitely have Flash's head. With how he stamps them physically, lets hope his ability transpires into them too! Fingers crossed! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mango
He may not become the next Bettors Delight, but the old boy deserved the shot and always has a home if he doesn't send the breeding shed on fire. He brought a number of people back into the game breeding mares they hadn't bred in a while etc and overall the support and kindness of everyone supporting him has been great. :) If he can produce tough, sound horses like himself he's done his job. :)
Hi Mango
The comment wasn't directed at you just didn't know how to balloon the comment from the past, just that comment in Triplev123 post was taken a bit out of context and had to show post 71 see my reasoning
Hi Nat
Yeah all good and thanks for clearing that up, so just out of curiosity where did you send you Falcon mare's.
One's still going around and the other has a very stereotype like Cullen weanling to Gotta Go Cullect
Hi Nat
I visited Alabar n.z in early april and had a look at Gotta Go Cullect and to be honest he was a little average in size and not overly long in the barrel, it will be interesting to see how he turns out when he has fully developed if he hasn't already. In saying this i saw a lot of his foals at Alabar and i have seen at least half a dozen by him owned by different people out here in Aus and they are cracking types very leggy with a bit of presence about them.
I don't think Christian Cullen has left an heir yet. It's getting late in the movie too. If he's going to do so he'd want to hurry up about it. I reckon there's a big chance that he will flip over to the venerated damsire roll.
Give them a chance Triplev123 his 4 better types have only been at stud a couple of years and I dont think they are even ready to race yet
Hi Mango
If I had my choice it would have been Pay Me Christian but he is restricted on farm only.
Nah, that's not quite what I meant Nat. What I meant there was that I can't see his heir arising from any of the currently at stud contenders.
Hi Nat
I think the only one by C-C with a good chance of making it is Gotta Go Cullect due to him getting good books of mare's. As Pay Me Christian's semen doesn't travel that makes it hard for him straight away and Gotta Go Cullen for me is priced to high. I would love to see a pic of Gotta Go Cullen now that he has let down, he was of good size and length. If he had of been priced right i think he could of got a decent book of mare's.
Don't forget Stunin Cullen for some reason he doesn't grab me, Gotta Go Cullen was priced to high he has the record but no time ,Ohoka Arizona I think may had been priced a little high to start with and Pay Me Christian poor production ability is a disappointment he was IMO the most exciting of them all cut short by injuries.
Hi Nat
I was only thinking about Stunin Cullen when we started talking about C-C progeny, but he is not standing at stud as yet and probably won't for a while to come, since he had a throat operation he come back and done a great job and barring any problems i reckon he could be a horse to watch next year on the grand circuit. When at Breckon Farms in early april i got an up close look at Stunin Dude 2010 model and a full brother to Stunin Cullen and he was a very nice type and very leggy colt.
I guess I'm waiting for the one that's close to being or the equal of his old man. Maybe I'll be waiting a long time, maybe forever. I hope that such a colt comes along before CC's passing. Of all the CC sons to date I have liked Ohoka Arizona the most.