thornyyyyyy

Quote:

Originally Posted by triplev123

Everyone has their own ideas on how far back you need to look of course...however for mine, Back Class goes a little deeper than just that Breno.
Mister Anthony has dealt to some VERY GOOD class horses since he began racing as a 3yo back in May of 2008 and he maintained very solid form through to March of 2010 when he beat up on a pretty handy field in the Gawler Cup, to that point a slate of 27 starts for 14 wins & 5 placings over nearly 2 years of racing. He was a very, very consistent horse, no question.
Since March of 2010 I make it that he has had 11 starts for 1 win (which was last night in against M2-M3's admittedly BUT notably, with not a killer in sight) and 10 unplaced efforts.
To put it in a Nutshell, this is not some pie-eater come in from the cold. Just like Dartmoor, old mate Mister Anthony was always a good horse but one that, for whatever reason had gone off form. Horses are not machines despite what some people seems to think. Add to that the fact that it seems so little credit is ever given to first getting and then most importantly of all keeping a horse mentally sharp and there you have it.
The most fascinating thing is that nobody ever seems to say so much as a freaking word about handy horses with good form that leave one stable and promptly lose all form in another stable BUT they will ALWAYS seek to pile shit on the guy who gets a horse that for whatever reason has lost all form in one stable, moves digs & finds it again in some new surroundings. Buster, I'm looking rather sternly in your direction.

He beat Shardons Rocket in the Gawler Cup. Going into that race Shardons Rocket was an M2. No different to the horses last night.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by buster

i dont do much form for sydney anymore, its a waste of time

and no not betting at charlton

I'll hazard a guess Buster & say that the reason you don't do much form for Sydney anymore and think it's a waste of time is because you're having no success there. Further to that, I think that is due to you having grown up Handicapping tight half milers with short home stretches. Skunks can & do leave fast enough to hold then they'd walk, walk and zip home to win. Melton is 200m bigger than HP but it still has a pretty serious front-end bias. As a Punter a leader bias is predictable and predictable is good punting. No issues with that. But Menangle? You need to change your entire Handicapping mindset on a 1400m track otherwise you'll just go out backwards. You need to pay WAY MORE ATTENTION TO CLASS & TO BACK CLASS.

In climbing into David Thorn's recent successes you and a few others also don't seem to have noticed a crucial aspect to this...the very thing a lot of people, notably including myself, used to absolutely climb all over Thorny for when he drove at HP, i.e. his extreme...and by that I do mean extreeeeeeeeeeeme...patience, is the thing that is working for him BIG-TIME when he drives at Menangle. I freely admit that I've gone down to the fence on more than one occasion at HP and absolutely given it to Thorny for one of his drives. You ask him. It used to drive me nuts at times. Cost me a bottle of Black Label Johnny Walker one night actually. However, at Menangle....credit where it's due. "If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs..." for want of a better way of describing it. He drives that track superbly well. His timing is excellent. Add that to the fact his horses are trained there on the track, they're super-fit, healthy, they're mentally sharp and they're being exceptionally well placed. No big surprise to me that success follows.
On top of that again, success breeds success. With the imminent increases in prizemoney at Menangle existing clients are shelling out good $ to keep the stable supplied & a string of prospective new clients would no doubt be rining every day to get their horses into the stable...so he's going to be getting more & better horses as he goes...& what happens? Surprise, surprise. More success. To hark back to a very, very old Tv ad. for Cousins Imperial Leather Soap...."Roger, Tahiti looks nice" "Hmmm, Simon...Tahiti". :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by triplev123

I'll hazard a guess Buster & say that the reason you don't do much form for Sydney anymore and think it's a waste of time is because you're having no success there. Further to that, I think that is due to you having grown up Handicapping tight half milers with short home stretches. Skunks can & do leave fast enough to hold then they'd walk, walk and zip home to win. Melton is 200m bigger than HP but it still has a pretty serious front-end bias. As a Punter a leader bias is predictable and predictable is good punting. No issues with that. But Menangle? You need to change your entire Handicapping mindset on a 1400m track otherwise you'll just go out backwards. You need to pay WAY MORE ATTENTION TO CLASS & TO BACK CLASS.

In climbing into David Thorn's recent successes you and a few others also don't seem to have noticed a crucial aspect to this...the very thing a lot of people, notably including myself, used to absolutely climb all over Thorny for when he drove at HP, i.e. his extreme...and by that I do mean extreeeeeeeeeeeme...patience, is the thing that is working for him BIG-TIME when he drives at Menangle. I freely admit that I've gone down to the fence on more than one occasion at HP and absolutely given it to Thorny for one of his drives. You ask him. It used to drive me nuts at times. Cost me a bottle of Black Label Johnny Walker one night actually. However, at Menangle....credit where it's due. "If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs..." for want of a better way of describing it. He drives that track superbly well. His timing is excellent. Add that to the fact his horses are trained there on the track, they're super-fit, healthy, they're mentally sharp and they're being exceptionally well placed. No big surprise to me that success follows.
On top of that again, success breeds success. With the imminent increases in prizemoney at Menangle existing clients are shelling out good $ to keep the stable supplied & a string of prospective new clients would no doubt be rining every day to get their horses into the stable...so he's going to be getting more & better horses as he goes...& what happens? Surprise, surprise. More success. To hark back to a very, very old Tv ad. for Cousins Imperial Leather Soap...."Roger, Tahiti looks nice" "Hmmm, Simon...Tahiti". :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

Wrong. Lets go over last night.

Mister Anthony as we've been over wasnt back class. Prince Benji was the back class runner and done no good (open company and a claimer driver).
Indy Village just too good anyway.
Mapua Legend - leader and won.Memphis Bay back class and ran last.
Dartmoor - same class of race. Bold Cruiser and Megasam back class done no good (ran in FFA Hunter Cup day).
Pacific Playgirl - UP in class. MMC was back class. (Ran in Hunter Cup)
General George beat a pair of back class. Notaswethort has ran in the Inter and Strike Up The Band down from beaten 3.5m M1/M3
Arizone Blue was in the same class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buster

your right hes just a better trainer then webster and a better driver than sugars.

im happy to back my judgement everyday of the week and i do, its pretty easy for you to get on here after the race and talk up the winner

Triple says...Still the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....with thanks to Simon & Garfunkle.

Buster, nowhere did I ever say no even suggest that he was a better trainer than G.Webster nor did I suggest he was a better driver than G. Sugars. That's little more than a product of your fertive imagination and apparent depleted powers of reading & comprehension coming to the fore...yet again. If you can find where I said anything even approaching that then please, feel free to point it out for all & sundry. Did it ever occur to you that so often a simple change of routine, of outlook, of stable surrounds can and does work wonders for horses that have lost form for whatever reason? Probably not. I'll state once more The most fascinating thing is that nobody ever seems to say so much as a freaking word about handy horses with good form that leave one stable and promptly lose all form in another stable BUT they will ALWAYS seek to pile shit on the guy who gets a horse that for whatever reason has lost all form in one stable, moves digs & finds it again in some new surroundings. Buster, I'm looking rather sternly in your direction.
As for talking up anything....what absolute rubbish. If you take my trying to explain to you why it is that you've inadvertantly become a Cello Player in the Marching Band with regard to handicapping these Menangle races as talking up the horses, then so be it. It's your wall paint. Enjoy.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiebreno

Wrong. Lets go over last night.

Mister Anthony as we've been over wasnt back class.

Triple says...So if it wasn't Back Class...what was it then? Divine Intervention?
I didn't see Benny Hinn on-course at Menangle...did you?

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...6f7a9c59b7afb4
C'mon. You can do better than that surely?

Up until the end of March 2010, 11 months ago, that horse had a slate of 27 starts for 14 wins & 5 placings over nearly 2 years of racing, under the care of G. Webster from the first time he set foot on the track in anger. After 2yrs or so of very consistent form and after winning a lot of races against some good quality horses including The Gawler Cup, his last win for G. Webster, he tossed in a couple of ordinary efforts & spent about 6 months or so away from the track.
He came back in late, late October 2010, had 4 starts in against pretty solid/in-form M2-M3-M4 company at Melton for no disgrace but no result.
This was followed by 3 starts from the Stand over distances ranging from 2240m to 2760m, each time beginning badly against solid opposition, two of three times sitting up outside the leader virtually throughout and getting beaten 5m, 8m and 50m, the latter after sitting in the breeze and tiring in the Ararat Cup.
Following those race he was dropped into a Claimer against some old hard arses and finished a fair way back & then his next start was at Menangle...and he wins against a field that was not as strong as compared to most of those he had been racing from the Stand & the Mobile in his previous 10 starts. If that's really such a big surprise then troops, I'm Mother Theresa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buster

my post was a joke.... but well done for writing so much about it

I thought it was a joke too...but not the kind of joke you may have intended it to be. :p

PS. Surely I've gotta get points for the Benny Hinn reference & pic. That's GOLD! even if I do say so myself.