Not that surprising in terms of Lumber Dream
Check out this list of his Broodmare Sire awards
https://classicfamilies.dev/career/LMBRTRM10011619
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Not that surprising in terms of Lumber Dream
Check out this list of his Broodmare Sire awards
https://classicfamilies.dev/career/LMBRTRM10011619
The Derby favourite is very short at $1.35
I don't know the WA horses but I note that he has not run over the distance before and that he has led for his last 3 wins while he is off the 2nd line tonight
Shannon Suvaljko race 2 great drive unlucky to have got nutted on the line.
Hotly Pursued in the Derby Consolation showing how hard it is to come from the back. I expect Never Ending may make an earlier move that that horse though.
When did the Derby get put back to 7.49/10.49
58 minutes between races!
Interesting
as in son's unrestrained drive sees dad train the winner
and the other crazy thing is that Gary Hall Jnr has pretty much been the main driver for the First Four place-getters
(off to bed)
Yeah. I would think nothing untoward but optics isnt great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
He ramped it up in the 2nd qtr which was fair enough given the wraps and driving that way gave main danger Smartee no chance.
The drive on Smartee was also interesting, one stopped in his face but surely at that point you pull 4 wide to continue pressing forward. Then he got to the back and came 3 wide charging. Not talking through my pocket because he wouldnt have won anyway but it was a stinker of a drive.
Thought the Never Ending drive was a misjudgement re speed given the horse is coming off a respiratory issue and first time over 2500. Usually GP 2500 mtre races at GP are rack em and stack em. The first quarter and down the back sprint really told in the last 150mtres. It’s very easy with hindsight though. You can dissect the race but barriers and fitness won out, in my humble.
Those stats on Lumber Dream are quite remarkable. I do recall he was a good broodmare sire but not to that extent. (Also did Pruex Chevalier had one of the most distinctive gaits that you will ever see?, wonder if that was from his sire or dams side?)
Sweet Lou sired the quinella
I failed to mention how meritorious the winner was ie Skylou.1.56.3 mile rate is really moving and much faster than the previous year (mile rate 1.58.8). It was probably a race record. Essentially a great staying performance, wonder if Skylou could be the one to mix it with the big guns in the slot races.
That was a good finish by Rolling Fire
Good point. Very good horse. A fair way from the winner but it’s hard not to see Rolling Fire being competitive in some good races. I have the impression he will be one horse that strengthens with maturity.
$450k is a lot of money in the harness world
A travesty if Storm doesn't get his name on the honour roll as he has been best in the west for 18 months by a gap (except Shockwave who we barely get to see in action).
There was always going to be a protest if he JJM could run 2nd.
I am off to bed - will read about it in the morning
Dismissed
12m margin we should have been in bed 30 mins ago. Will chip in for De Campos fine though
Magnificent horse!
My take on the race:
Magnificent Storm spent the entire first bend trying to cross Jumpingjackmac. De Campo showed no intention of easing, yet McDonald kept trying to hold MS out. Contact was made when De Campo eventually crossed, yet JJM was not "knocked down" as Snr claimed mearly mixed its gait for a few strides before regaining the run of the race.
The subsequent protest was, um, ambitious and optimistic. MS sprinted clear of the field in the straight to win by 12.7 metres. This, in a Grand Circuit event and WA's premier race.
Snr's outburst and claims in the steward's room were both outrageous and unfactual. Just watch the replay if you disagree. Snr calling De Campo a cheat is highly unprofessional coming from a once-respected trainer (his stocks with me now amount to zero). His claim that MS could not win if it had to sit in the death is plainly ridiculous given the manner in which the horse won and the early petrol it consumed to lead. If Snr thought JJM could win, you would expect it to have finished a lot closer than 12.7 metres.
The only truth spoken during Snr's rant was by Ray William's during his brief, to the point, interruption.
De Campo did cause interference, compounded by McDonald's blind compliance with his trainer's instructions. He deserved a suspension, likely to be reduced on appeal. Six weeks seems a bit excessive,royally given with some added mayonnaise to appease the raging Snr.
The stewards handled the protest well and earned their pay, dealing with a licence who's demeanour suggested he is in charge of WA trots. As for Snr, pull your boof head mate and publicly apologise for your behaviour.
Snr is the elder statesman of WA trotting. Compare his arrogant, disrespectful behaviour with the Fred Kersley and you quickly draw the conclusion only one of them is deserving of "legendary" status.
All of these shenanigans greatly detracted from Magnificent Storm's wonderful win.
My immediate reaction was how on earth would they overturn the result, then I immediately thought of the Lucky Grey protest, the most unusual protest that I can remember in any code in WA which was upheld. Overall it was a pretty interesting 30 or so minutes. Ray Williams old school approach elevates him in my opinion. MS has been a wonderful horse over here for the last 3 years so it was great to see him win our biggest race.
I wasn’t overly interested in the Pacing Cup this year; 7 starters from the previous year, same trainers with multiple runners, lower class horse from the East was the only visitor etc. Turned out to be the most memorable for a few years. (Kyle Harper drove a double also including the big mares race which was great to see).
I am a bit less accommodating of De Campos drive Trev. As McDonald had the inside, I see it the reverse of you - he showed no signs of surrendering the lead and yet De C kept persisting
He was going to get the lead but should have got another ½ m clear before coming down
As it was the biggest of races, the stewards were entitled to be ropable too - what if he had brought JJM down
Magnificent won magnificently and very hard to say he would not have done so from the death But he broke the rules to take the lead
I didn't see any Stewards room footage and have not bothered reading much about it
I didn't expect them to uphold the protest but I would not have been totally surprised - it would have been drawing a moat as opposed to a line in the sand
Overall it says something about how ridiculously leader biased the GP track is (thus drives like we saw last night)
I was happy to see Magnificent win
You summed up the race pretty well Kev, the track is notoriously leader biased. That, in a nutshell, explains De Campo's determination to lead as well as McDonald's resolve not to hand up. The odds of contact being made increased with every stride the horses took. In accordance with the rules, De Campo cops a suspension while McDonald just copped a check for continuing to push his horse up when his chances of continuing to hold the pole had diminished. Fortunately for McDonald there are no rules or laws that I am aware of against stupidity.
G. Hall Snr can thank his lucky stars for the absence of rules against stupidity as he might have copped 12 months for his behaviour in the stewards' room.
Did the contact that caused Jumpingjackmac to break look to be a deliberate action of De Campo's to you? This is what Snr stated, not alleged, several times in the protest hearing. Watch the race again and compare it to Snr's statements - not allegations- that his horse had been deliberately knocked down. That is a very big stement too make and somewhat defamatory towards De Campo. He then went on to say, as part of his reason for protesting, that Magnificent Storm was a great horse but not brilliant enough to sit outside the leader and win. again I say the extra work the horse did, the winning margin and the manner in which MS won suggests Snr got his assessment wrong.
He then added that MS, by knocking JJM down, he had cost his horse the best position in the race (the lead) and, wait for it - and forced his other horse (Diego) to race in the death when it would have had the 1/1 spot if MS had stayed in the death.
That last comment summed up Snr's frustrations perfectly. The race was not rum in the way he hoped it would be. Had JJM not been checked, would he have vented so much?
From his 1 minute tirade I learnt Snr agrees the best place to be in a race is in the lead, he probably underestimated MS's staying ability but couldn't admit this having protested, and MS's failure to cease attacking for the lead cost Diego the coveted 1/1 position. And, worse, repeatedly accused De Campo of knocking his horse down.
Throwing a driver under the bus in this manner is extremely disrespectful and unprofessional in my opinion. He then followed on, ranting about his 55 years in the game and again stated it was a deliberate act. Having shut Ray Williams' attempts to refute his statement, I give a tick to Ray for shutting up when the stewards directed him to.
Williams' three word interjection summed up Snr's rant to that point and, intuitively, what was to follow. "You're talking sh!t".
Nuff said!
Thanks for the transcript - he was talking shit.
And gets away with it without even a tut-tut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
But they had to have a crack re the protest as they had a responsibility to the owners and there was huge prize money on offer. As for throwing another driver under a bus what else could he say as it was pretty evident what occurred. Intent, which is what Hall focused on, isn’t really relevant to the matter at hand so that was an error in their argument.
If the protest was upheld it would have set an interesting precedent. The weak link was that JJM was almost ran over for second and he actually wasn’t off stride for very long. While Hall got off subject, alot, he was clearly stressed and emotional and having the camera so close to his face was probably a little unfair. It’s not as if he turned over tables or was abusive. If he had walked out that would have definitely been unprofessional and letting the owners down.
In the interviews on twitter post race DC seemed a little flat, RW on the other hand was bright and happy.
Out of interest does anyone know of a protest which was upheld based on interference a long way from the winning post?
Yes, if my horse was checked by the winner in a $450k race I would consider a protest. Perhaps not when it occurred 2 3/4 lap from home, probably not when my horse was comprehensively beaten in the manner JJM was. Given the precedence of the Stewards suspending Hall jnr for his blatant breaking of whip rules in the Oaks, after determining the short half head margin did not adversely affect the (legally driven) runner up's chances, the 12.7 margin in the Cup suggests Hall snr had no hope of success.
I reiterate, Hall snr's performance in the Stewards room did nothing to enhance the sport's reputation. The first protest hearing I recall being broadcast live was Sunline v Northerly in the 2001 Cox Plate. I wish I could find a copy of the footage. Fred Kersley was relatively unknown in thoroughbred ranks at the time. While there definitely was interference, the protest was dismissed largely due to the way Fred calmly, methodically and rationally defended his horse. The stewards obviously agreed and Fred won plaudits from the massed racing media. He won two races in my opinion; one on the track and another in the stewards room.
Compare that with Snr's bombastic minute and a half rant on Friday night. The only thing "impressive" was that he managed to defame a leading driver, tell the winning trainer what he thought were his horse's limitations (which appeared to be none on Friday night), told the world how his team had been instructed to drive and accused the winner of having deliberately knocked his horse down (didn't happen) and made himself look foolish. Not bad within 90 seconds!
And it is not suitable to throw a driver "under the bus", so to speak. There was interference and ample film of the incident. Hall should have ust channelled Fred and calmly prosecuted his case. Instead, he throws a tantrum, diverts the stewards' attention from the race to himself and behaves like a complete dick. Not good enough and totally unprofessional.
Having tuned out after the race (just keeping an eye on the TAB results page as I expected a protest) I am guessing but somewhat surprised that Sky 1 gave harness extended time and telecast the protest?
Well that’s good news re Sky. I tuned out and watched it on the Trots WA X site. Straight after the race Sky showed a second or two of the connections etc and then did their classic of switching to a dog race and we saw the dogs walking up to the boxes. At least there wasn’t any images of dogs doing their business on that occasion. I hate the quick switch from the trots to the dogs and the long dog walk with the inevitable occurring.
With respect to the protest and the Kersley comparison, the Northerly protest is the yardstick re behaviour but Kersley was in the prime position of winning the race. Also whilst Hall did throw the winning driver under the bus, fair enough. Most people watching the race would think the same, and he called it as he saw it (although it diminished his argument). It is funny however that we lauded (or at least I have) Williams for his response but haven’t labeled him as being unprofessional around the use of profanity in an official inquiry.
Sorry for the confusion - I was asking if it was on Sky, not saying it wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Jasper
What is the Trots WA X site?
It is the old trots WA twitter site. They do pre and some post race interviews (links to stories and podcasts). I am not sure who administers the account but it is pretty a good resource. Some of the drivers are a bit generic but others can be quite funny (Chris Voak springs to mind). Matt Young will sometimes does the interviews and then run up and call the race. They pretty much have pre race interviews for most country meetings, either individually or when the drivers are in the parade rings. I have only got into to this sort of thing recently so others may be able to provide a more accurate summation.
Trots WA has a Facebook site but that isn’t as immediate.
I know it is a long way but you would think money like this might attract a Vic mare
The Norms Daughter a fortnight ago for $100K as well so GP give themselves every chance to get an interstate mare with double the big races for mares but maybe they need to push it back a bit so it doesn't clash with Queen of the Pacific and more closely aligns to the Golden Nugget.
The 2536m probably has more appeal not only for the money. In the Norms Daughter, if you draw badly and are out the back, you have no chance. The extra 406m tonight gives a poorly drawn mare a bit more hope but yes, if your operation can afford someone to be away for a fortnight, there is the potential double
'Norms' place-getters could do it again tonight
Interesting to see in last night's edition that despite it being 2536m, the $81 pop in the death would not give it up with over 2 laps to run - I guess it is his right but it then determines that the race is going to be a procession for the next lap. (He did get a QDT)
PP critical of Young on the favourite running along and getting beat by the one on his back
His point about team driving in the last is hard to disagree with
I would be thinking they stitched up the fave in the last race but he is going to have a good defence given how he drove it to its last start win. I probably couldnt convict him of team driving based on how he drove it last week (without betting/phone evidence etc) but would still give him time for not giving horse every chance.
Would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall when the horse returned to the stall ie if the owners attended. Another “not a good look for the sport” moment at GP.
The replay runs for a long time and I think you see some chatter from Shannon directed towards Maddison and looking around for Dylan
Apart from that race it was a good night of racing. The weather was perfect and we got to see My Ultimate Ronnie for the first time between races. He was on the rail but seemed to get around the track ok.
Four horse FFA field this Friday at GP. I suspect if it wasn’t the Pat Cranley Memorial the race wouldn’t have gone ahead. The FFA races have been pretty average this year overall (same horses, best barrier wins, numerous small fields).
Maybe the issue is that some FFA horses are being given a break re The Nullarbor and Fremantle Cup in April. Whatever the reason is I hope this week’s race isn’t an example of what to expect in the next month or two.