Luke Mccarthy enquiry adjourned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevoiceofreason

Wow what a thread this has become..... the lets bash L McCarthy thread.

Lets get some truths into it.

To say L McCarthy has raped the industry simply because he has one positive swab is an absolute disgrace. Many of his winners have been swabbed and have found to be clear of prohibited substances, it would be akin to saying Karloo Mick is no good and Barry Lew would have never won a race with him because a stablemate returned a positive to a steroid.again ridiculous.

These assumptions or accusations could have been made with some validity if the test for Boldenone was discovered last November but that is not the case it has been around for a long time.

Steroids have been banned for years in both equine codes and for years trainers in both codes have experimented with ways around it, both codes any many trainers were using testosterone in very small does a couple of years back until testing again caught up, that is the nature of racing and we need to get used to it.

All the swabs and people mentioned by VVV have one thing in common the drugs that have been found in their horses are not considered therapeutic, so the authorities should act and in my view have done so accordingly, in the end in some case that will be reviewed when the cases are appealed.

Had HRNSW allowed the transfer of horses to B McCarthy not only would it have looked a joke, because regardless of her ability of otherwise it would have been a joke.

This from time to time occurred in the past but HRNSW changed their policy in August last year and have invoked it since, this is not a ruling unique to L McCarthy congratulations to them.

I do have something in common with every other person on this thread in that I have no idea how Boldenone was found in two horses last year but I do know it is in breach of the rules and to me at least it appears our rule makers have acted consistently in both cases...... as an industry what more do we want.

Last time I looked not one jurisdiction in world racing was hanging trainers for positive swabs.

Some dribble here Bill. Many in their ivory towers don't have skin in the game and therefore don't feel the pain of coming 2nd etc to the likes of Luke or other cheats. As they have skin in the game, are hands on etc. .. they have a level of understanding of what it takes to improve a horse etc. . So although you only see the data of 1 positive swab, they through many years in the game have valid reasons to think that there are other factors at play and that there may be more horses being doped.
On your comments around the test. Maybe a new test for Boldonene came in that you or others didn't know about. You don't know everything. Why did Barry Lew and Luke Mc go on the same night? Luke then comes out to say that he's never heard of the stuff. . Well, if he's as professional as all suggest, then I'd expect him to know what Boldonene is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark diegutis

Yes Jett . Using this substance has other benefits besides the EPO production . It causes a veracious appetite . Horses can be worked much harder than would be normal and come home and still eat whatever is placed in front of them . These effects would give the horse an advantage for half a dozen or so starts . If trained well , their first starts would be devastating

[VVV] Hey Mark,
Aside from the much appreciated touches of journalistic licence there by way of 'EPO', 'voracious appetite' and 'worked much harder than would be normal'...I wonder if you and others are aware of the rather duplicitious nature of banging away at Boldenone allegedly prompting a horse's Kidneys to produce more of the horse's own naturally occurring Erythropoieten...whilst clearly thus far having left a Trainer with a confirmed Human EPO positive virutally as alone as a lost child at the Sydney Easter Show?
What about old mate from The Hunter? ...the bloke to apparently jammed Meth into his horse? Where's the moral outrage there? I shudder to think what it does to a horse.
Forgive me, I forgot...you are not racing against those two blokes every week are you?
My mistake. :rolleyes:
Seriously mate, if it's one in then it's all in and if we're being consistent with the outrage then they ALL deserve to get jammed, equally so. Play hard ball by all means but please, go with the all inclusive version and not the selective one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark diegutis

Hi Jaimie . The reason people are outraged over LM's Boldenone positive is because he has , basically , raped the industry . The EPO and Meth positives are just as treacherous { but only as treacherous } . These trainers were lucky to be seen at a harness meeting . They are every bit as despicable . The benefits of Boldenone are , more recently , just being understood . Boldenone causes the body to produce large amounts of EPO with other benefits such as causing a healthy appetite . I think this steroid is as dangerous for our industry as any substance . Possibly the most damaging factor is that it has educated other trainers who would be willing to source and use it to gain advantage . Attached is a recent study done on the benefits of Boldenone .

One further property of boldenone that is most advantageous to athletes who partake in cardiovascular exercises is that boldenone directly stimulates the kidneys to produce erythropoeitin (EPO). EPO is a hormone that increases the number of red blood cells in your blood, thus increasing blood viscosity but more importantly allowing more oxygen to be carried to the cells in your body, improving performance of aerobic exercises. This may also help increase vascularity in users as well.

[VVV] I've seen some absolute beauties over the years Mark...and I freely admit to having been responsible for my fair share of same...however that takes the cake.
For you to suggest that Luke has raped the Industry off the back of a single Boldenone Positive is disgraceful and for mine it underlines just how far past the red zone at the of the tachometer that this debate has now gone.
Press the pedal down much further & the pistons are likely to blast through the cylinder head and punch holes through the bonnet.

Furthermore, fair dinkum....how you could possibly seek to equate Positives for Meth & EPO...with Boldenone? Mate...that leaves me baffled.

For starters, obviously neither Methamphetamine nor EPO have established thresholds.

Boldenone however, does.

Does that aspect alone start to ring any bells at all?

Unlike Meth and EPO, for the purposes of racing Boldenone is NOT an illegal substance.
It is instead allowed to be present up to an established & published threshold (with this and, as you and many others know, a whole series of other therapeutic thresholds having long been a soap box of mine).
This is a legal substance overage, not an illegal substance presence.
Equating Boldenone with Meth & EPO is akin to equating Heroin with Bute. I'm sure you see the stark difference there too.

It's an emotive issue Mark...& ultimately while we're all coming at it from different angles we all want the same thing in the end, which is the betterment of Harness Racing and that which will ensure its furture. Nevertheless, I'd go and retract the raped the industy charge because it doesn't reflect at all well on anyone, especially so yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

[VVV] Hey Mark,
Aside from the much appreciated touches of journalistic licence there by way of 'EPO', 'voracious appetite' and 'worked much harder than would be normal'...I wonder if you and others are aware of the rather duplicitious nature of banging away at Boldenone allegedly prompting a horse's Kidneys to produce more of the horse's own naturally occurring Erythropoieten...whilst clearly thus far having left a Trainer with a confirmed Human EPO positive virutally as alone as a lost child at the Sydney Easter Show?
What about old mate from The Hunter? ...the bloke to apparently jammed Meth into his horse? Where's the moral outrage there? I shudder to think what it does to a horse.
Forgive me, I forgot...you are not racing against those two blokes every week are you?
My mistake. :rolleyes:
Seriously mate, if it's one in then it's all in and if we're being consistent with the outrage then they ALL deserve to get jammed, equally so. Play hard ball by all means but please, go with the all inclusive version and not the selective one.

Hi Jaimie . They do ALL deserved to get jammed . I have raced against these 2 blokes on a number of occasions . I was beaten by one of then sitting outside my horse and grinding him down at Harold park . That horse went positive . Any one who cheats affects everyone in the entire industry . Boldonone DOES cause the body to produce EPO , not allegedly . I stated fact . I,m not racing against those 2 now . I never ran against Ben Johnson either myself but that is just as wrong . I really can't understand your first "go" at journalistic license . Those extracts are just correct English . Is that really that bad ? I'm not into playing hardball on a forum . I haven't made any comment until after the judges decision . Innocent until proven guilty but guilty if proven so . The tone of your comments is is to try and make me look like a fool . I can't understand that . I gave you more credit than that .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

[VVV] I've seen some absolute beauties over the years Mark...and I freely admit to having been responsible for my fair share of same...however that takes the cake.
For you to suggest that Luke has raped the Industry off the back of a single Boldenone Positive is disgraceful and for mine it underlines just how far past the red zone at the of the tachometer that this debate has now gone.
Press the pedal down much further & the pistons are likely to blast through the cylinder head and punch holes through the bonnet.

Furthermore, fair dinkum....how you could possibly seek to equate Positives for Meth & EPO...with Boldenone? Mate...that leaves me baffled.

For starters, obviously neither Methamphetamine nor EPO have established thresholds.

Boldenone however, does.

Does that aspect alone start to ring any bells at all?

Unlike Meth and EPO, for the purposes of racing Boldenone is NOT an illegal substance.
It is instead allowed to be present up to an established & published threshold (with this and, as you and many others know, a whole series of other therapeutic thresholds having long been a soap box of mine).
This is a legal substance overage, not an illegal substance presence.
Equating Boldenone with Meth & EPO is akin to equating Heroin with Bute. I'm sure you see the stark difference there too.

It's an emotive issue Mark...& ultimately while we're all coming at it from different angles we all want the same thing in the end, which is the betterment of Harness Racing and that which will ensure its furture. Nevertheless, I'd go and retract the raped the industy charge because it doesn't reflect at all well on anyone, especially so yourself.

Hi Triple . I did state after that most "perceived " that he had raped the industry . I did correct that . As far as boldenone is concerned . It is quickly becoming the choice steroid of abuse for stamina related competition . Having a set threshold only means that it is a naturally occurring substance . We have a threshold for bi carb and bi carb is the equal of any performance enhancing substance going around . We shouldn't all hate each other because of someone using steroids .

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark diegutis

Hi Jaimie . They do ALL deserved to get jammed . I have raced against these 2 blokes on a number of occasions . I was beaten by one of then sitting outside my horse and grinding him down at Harold park . That horse went positive . Any one who cheats affects everyone in the entire industry . Boldonone DOES cause the body to produce EPO , not allegedly . I stated fact . I,m not racing against those 2 now . I never ran against Ben Johnson either myself but that is just as wrong . I really can't understand your first "go" at journalistic license . Those extracts are just correct English . Is that really that bad ? I'm not into playing hardball on a forum . I haven't made any comment until after the judges decision . Innocent until proven guilty but guilty if proven so . The tone of your comments is is to try and make me look like a fool . I can't understand that . I gave you more credit than that .

[VVV] Not at all. Not trying to make you look like a fool Mark, not at all...I like journalistic licence & emotive language as much as the next guy if not more.
Rather, what I am trying to get at is the disproportionate level of outrage vis-a'-vis the seriousness of the respective positives that I noted previously.
Boldenone-Methamphetamine-Erythropoieten. That line-up prompts me to think back to the old Sesame Street song the now no doubt well and truly deceased Mr. Hooper used to sing. "Which one of these is not like the others" "Tell me..can you guess which one?".
That's what I'm getting at. Would 'selective outrage' cover it do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark diegutis

Hi Triple . I did state after that most "perceived " that he had raped the industry . I did correct that . As far as boldenone is concerned . It is quickly becoming the choice steroid of abuse for stamina related competition . Having a set threshold only means that it is a naturally occurring substance . We have a threshold for bi carb and bi carb is the equal of any performance enhancing substance going around . We shouldn't all hate each other because of someone using steroids .

[VVV] G'day Mark,
I'm kind of surprised that Boldenone is all of a suddeen quickly become anything Mark. The reason I say that is not to be a smart arse but rather that if in fact it is...then it has sure taken its time. Boldenone has been around for Donkey's, must be at least 30 years as far as I can recall, might even be a bit more. Nobody's hating anyone either by the way, there are very few people in this world that I genuinely hate...for sure one is a red headed ex communist turned eco-marxist and perenial test pilot for a broom factory that currently resides in Canberra but not for much longer...and while there are probably others, they certainly don't come immediately to mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

[VVV] G'day Mark,
I'm kind of surprised that Boldenone is all of a suddeen quickly become anything Mark. The reason I say that is not to be a smart arse but rather that if in fact it is...then it has sure taken its time. Boldenone has been around for Donkey's, must be at least 30 years as far as I can recall, might even be a bit more. Nobody's hating anyone either by the way, there are very few people in this world that I genuinely hate...for sure one is a red headed ex communist turned eco-marxist and perenial test pilot for a broom factory that currently resides in Canberra but not for much longer...and while there are probably others, they certainly don't come immediately to mind.

Hi Jaimie . I agree 1000% . The redhead has to go . Boldonone is one of those drugs that has gone under the radar . Its benefits are now being realised . A bit like Aspirin . All the best , Mark

Don't want to buy into any arguments but what I don't understand is he doesn't seem to me like he's silly. Don't know him but he doesn't come across as silly, quite the opposite in fact. I'm not being derogatory to Newcastle or anyone else, but on form the horse wins the race anyway. Why would he risk everything he's built up over 10 years for the Newcastle Cup? Just doesn't make sense to me. All this crap he's going through now for a 30k race? He knows the winner gets swabbed, why would he do it?

Horse has exceeded a threshold. Not been found guilty of giving horse an illegal substance. Sure he loses the race but 9 months?

To Mark....last night I saw a comment that I am sure was made by you, in regard to boldenone being either undetectable or out of the system after 17 days (or so) and I thought thats pretty interesting but I cannot find it today. That bloody State Of Origin match took priority over last nights discussion. Either I am dreaming or the comment was zapped because it wasn't backed up with a source. Not even sure if it was your comment, but if it was, could you repeat your statement (with a source) because I have not read anywhere of this short term property before.

Cheers Brad