Auckland Reactor sets out on Inters mission

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viv Strangman

Nathan, you must have a twin brother or someone else has been writing your posts for you. In the not to distant past you stated that if Auckland Reactor was to race in FFAs in Victoria on a consistent basis he would only win once in every 3 or 4 starts.

If your judgement is right he has no show at GC level this weekend. However in your last few posts you are suggesting he may win on the GC this season. Something not right here. And dont get so wound up about that 53:8 half.

Everyone knows Auckland Reactor missed away, looped the field, sat parked the last lap and ran home in 53:8 with Mark Purdon sitting quietly in the cart. Highview Tommy and Terror To Love among the beaten horses. It is the fastest half ever run in a race in NZ and time is and always will be important in this breed. It has always been that way since the 1850s and still is today.

It has always been the method used to assess the merits of a horse since the beginning of this breed.Hence the name of the breed. So I place a much bigger premium on time than you do going by your comments. One thing is certain. You and I will never agree on this issue but I would hope the next time Im in Australia we could have a beer and chew the fat on an industry that we both obviously have a great passion for

Viv,

No actually it's me and I'm not about facing on my comments, I firmly believe on what AR has shown he's a 1 in 3-4 win FFA horse consistently in Victoria as drivers over here certainly won't let Mark or Reactor simply dictate every week as has been the case in NZ when Reactor's come through his grades.

Quite a few of Reactor's wins have been against some fairly moderate company to say the least, gift lead and then just roll along as he has liked.

He'd come over here with his reputation and 95% of our drivers would have no problems parking him, making him work, serve it up to him, etc, etc and wouldn't just let Mark roll around easy as you like. The casual nature of how you write about Mark's driving of Reactor I could swear he must be having jam and scones whilst he drives, shame it wouldn't be the case here.

The horse has got amazing ability. I did say this and IF, again that word, IF he puts it all together can do amazing things and I further said he warrants winning a big GC race, yet up to this point, he hasn't put it together consistently to do that. Warrant and doing so are two entirely different things.

Look at the Hunter Cup field this weekend, it's a weaker field than others (mainly due to ID being in Perth) and I did say I thought he was a chance of winning that more so I feel than an ID in Perth due to the tightness of their circuit. Only time will tell if that be the case.

Please don't patronise me and tell me to not get wound up over a 53.8 half. Read my comments again to Maori's, I'm far from wound up as I don't gush over it when I've seen it before at the Meadowlands, however with the afore mentioned half of similar ilk put in front of it. Times aren't my lone criteria for judging a horse, they maybe yours.

You and I massively disagree simply because I'm not all gaga over a horse who to be frank, again hasn't done a pinch on his CV at the GC level (real races) at least 5-6 Kiwi horses have done better in the last 15 years.

Until he consistently stamps his authority at that level, no sorry, I don't buy in on just 'hype'. I agree with Aussie Breno, remember all the drivel about Mainland Banner being better than her father! Please give us all a break.

You Kiwis are well known for 'hype'. You know how to hype one as it's how you've sold your horses for so long.

Just trying to lower the temp. a bit.The discussion is of interest because we have two opposing points of view and neither will be changed irrespective of the arguments put forward.Both sides will have supporters and the statistics used by both sides come from the same data.
To not sit on the fence I am with the opinion that AR is over-rated and that opinion will be justified (or not) in the next few weeks.
Gotta go now we are looking at overweight canaries for our next show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiebreno

Are you posting in this thread as part of your love of harness racing or part of your Dr Phil researching :D

Point you are missing is regardless of weather you consider time important that is what the whole industry judges racehorses and sires by exactly that: TIME. Has been that way for 150 years. In NZ Auckland Reactor has held 6 NZ records which is more than the five Kiwi horses you mentioned combined. Us yokels over here made him Horse of the Year twice. In both years Changeover and Monkey King were racing as well but for some reason us kiwis made Auckland Reactor Horse of the Year. Go figure.
As to your rationale with regards to Auckland Reactor only being able to win once every 3 or 4 starts in Victorian FFA class, that implies that he is not A GC grade horse even though he has won 2 of his 5 GC starts. More revelant is that having won last week he cant win this week or else your judgement that he can only win every 3rd to 4th start in a lower level than he is facing this week is looking suspect. I mean apart from his stablemate he is giving the rest of the field a 10metre start.
That 53:8 half has really got under your skin. To have to resort to comparing Australasian racing to the Meadowlands is getting a bit desperate. As I am sure you are aware the gigs used in North America are conseratively estimated to save up to 2 seconds over the mile so a touch disingenuious to compare the two racing hemispheres. What you can compare that time with is all the races held in Australasia in the last 100 years. Same type of gigs, same tracks ect . Its the fastest half ever in NZ . Goes with his records over a mile , on up to 2600 metres.
As in have previously said AR has nothing left to prove on this side of the Tasman, contrary to what any Australian might think. Multiple record holder, Twice horse of the Year, his standing is just fine over here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viv Strangman

Point you are missing is regardless of weather you consider time important that is what the whole industry judges racehorses and sires by exactly that: TIME. Has been that way for 150 years. In NZ Auckland Reactor has held 6 NZ records which is more than the five Kiwi horses you mentioned combined. Us yokels over here made him Horse of the Year twice. In both years Changeover and Monkey King were racing as well but for some reason us kiwis made Auckland Reactor Horse of the Year. Go figure.

As to your rationale with regards to Auckland Reactor only being able to win once every 3 or 4 starts in Victorian FFA class, that implies that he is not A GC grade horse even though he has won 2 of his 5 GC starts. More revelant is that having won last week he cant win this week or else your judgement that he can only win every 3rd to 4th start in a lower level than he is facing this week is looking suspect. I mean apart from his stablemate he is giving the rest of the field a 10metre start.

That 53:8 half has really got under your skin. To have to resort to comparing Australasian racing to the Meadowlands is getting a bit desperate. As I am sure you are aware the gigs used in North America are conseratively estimated to save up to 2 seconds over the mile so a touch disingenuious to compare the two racing hemispheres. What you can compare that time with is all the races held in Australasia in the last 100 years. Same type of gigs, same tracks ect . Its the fastest half ever in NZ . Goes with his records over a mile , on up to 2600 metres.

As in have previously said AR has nothing left to prove on this side of the Tasman, contrary to what any Australian might think. Multiple record holder, Twice horse of the Year, his standing is just fine over here.

Viv, Viv, Viv, still reaching!!!

I'm not missing any point about TIME. I said I don't get hung up about it as I had been very fortunate/lucky to be at The Meadowlands and witnessed spectacular times being run so time isn't my sole criteria for judging a horse. I made no comparison of racing at The Meadowlands to Australasian racing, I merely said I'd been witness to great times, but they weren't my be and all, end all of judging horses.

I have a question for you Viv, because Smoken Up has the Australasian 1.48.5 record, based on your TIME logic, is he a better horse than Blacks A Fake?

You reach in all of your posts by taking out bit parts and then convert with your spin but the one thing you continually breeze over is the part where I keep referring to your idol's record in GC (real racing) not being anywhere near the 5-6 Kiwi horses I named of the last 15yrs. It must eat at you that your media hype job just flat out doesn't stack up against Cullen and the like. Oh poor Viv, don't cry, Reactor might win a real major over here, or may win the NZ Cup if he ever decides to put his mind on the job.

My inference about winning in Victoria was clearly stated that Reactor wouldn't get the gift runs and easy hand ups he's gotten at home throughout the majority of his career. We Aussies wouldn't give a toss for Reactor's, or Purdon's reputation one iota and he would be treated as if another in the field. Half of Reactors wins were cake-walks due to the circumstances of the race and weak drivers gifting Purdon the top. Your man Purdon wouldn't be eating jam and scones over here week in-week out.

As for giving the field 10mtrs start this week, shows what the handicapper thinks considering Elsu came off 20mtrs to win his Hunter Cup. Oh no, there's something I'm sure you'll skip over Viv, Reactor's getting 10mtrs head start than a fellow Kiwi horse who won the race! Oh hang on a minute, by Viv's wonder logic, Reactor's got other track records in NZ, must make him better! Silly me for thinking otherwise.

Viv -

"As in have previously said AR has nothing left to prove on this side of the Tasman, contrary to what any Australian might think."

You might state he's got nothing left to prove on your side of the Tasman (I'll disagree as he hasn't won your NZ Cup) but guess what, he's got everything to prove on this side of the Tasman for the massive hyperbole you Kiwi's have on him.

I'll go right back to the start of the discussion to make it easy for you where I clearly said, he's totally unproven on this side of the Tasman for the hype that he comes along with. It seems I'm not the only one in the this thread who thinks the same.

At the moment, he's a ID heat winner, and a Ballarat FFA winner. Shame that doesn't light a candle to the likes of Cullen, Iraklis, Holmes DG, Monkey King, Elsu and their records over here or in your homeland where they've won the biggest also.

Again don't cry Viv, Reactor might get there one day and have a 'real racing' record like theirs one day...

Time is not everything. Blacks A Fake is the best horse we've seen in a long time but he never went out every start to break the clock, he only ever did what he had to. The night Smoken Up beat him in the Miracle Mile BAF went as quick as they can go because A HORSE WENT WITH HIM and he had the fight in him which any potential grand circuit horse needs. I am also of the opinion that yes Auckland Reactor can run super time but the majority of his best performances were when he walked a 62 half and than zipped home. 9 out of 10 FFA horses can do that. Real racing is when the race is run truly, none of this cheap 33,32 quarters and we see the best out of a horse when they run a race truly. Auckland Reactor has never to my memory put in one of those performances were he has dug deep and broke the clock. He has major, major ability however just has seemed to be plagued by problems. I would personally love to see him get to the lofty heights everyone believed he would early in his career. However at this stage he's just another exceptional age horse in the Captain Joy, Lombok Pocket Watch mould.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.John

However at this stage he's just another exceptional age horse in the Captain Joy, Lombok Pocket Watch mould.

It's one thing to say other people over-rate him (which I agree with) but you've severely under-rated him here imo.
Auckland Reactor has won on the grand circuit + an Inter heat and finished 2 lengths off in a Miracle Mile where no-one made ground the back. Heck, the race he won last week is on par with anything Captain Joy or Pocket Watch has won as an aged horse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Frank

Maori's, I appreciate your opinion about Reactor, I actually stated this in other posts.

Let's be clear once and for all, I have said repeatedly that Reactor is a fine horse, I've further said he's got a great record with his age victories and two (2) GC victories, however what I did clearly state is that for the hype/boom, call it what you will, the horse has yet to deliver in Australia, nor for that matter consistently in his homeland in 'real' races - GC level.

He's always had excuses for not standing, being injured, not quite right, etc, etc and that why I said he's a fine horse, but not one I can say on the way I judge horses is he better than the 5-6 Kiwi horses of the last 15yrs I named who proved themselves on both sides of the ditch. You like to use the word 'fact' Maori's, well that's a fact, the horse hasn't done the business in on the biggest stage compared to his predecessors yet the Kiwi's, i have stated this Nathan, "Now yes he has beaten Monkey 7 out of 11 but i still dont personally claim he will go down in history YET as a better horse AS FAR AS HIS CV GOES.
His CV is still being added to.
The horses you mention have all retired (maybe not Monkey yet?) and completed their careers, his is an unfinished book at this point, so i dont believe we can say he is a better horse as far as HISTORY will assess him cos he aint finished yet, and therefore unfair to compare CAREERS when he is still adding to his." and yourself laud over him like he's the greatest horse to ever look through a bridle.
please show me where i laud over him like hes the greatest...i have previously stated Nathan, "I dont say he is the best horse in NZ or Aus currently and i dont claim he is better than Monkey, Elsu etc etc etc, YET..." post 44...so please dont misquote me or put words in my mouth based on what you THINK i think.
I havent once claimed him to better than your5-6 Kiwis
i have certainly stated his 7/11 record over the Monkey merely to attempt to give you evidence of ability Nathan, ability not his CV mate...
i have also said how much i admire the Monkey, i dont disrespect him as u seem to think i think...again...

As for your comment about it 'being a shame', well no in actual fact, it's not a shame I don't see the horse the same as you, that's unfortunately called life and we are all different.

I do see the horse in a great light, he's obviously got amazing ability but he's yet to show it again on the big stage.

I will be the first to clap my hands should he win Hunter Cups, ID's, Miracle Mile's, NZ Cups etc, etc as they are the crown jewels of Harness Racing and one could say his potential and ability warrant one, but warranting one and winning one are two entirely different things and he has to go out and do the business.

Amazing halves of 53.8, yep on one hand fantastic. Fortunately (I've been very lucky) Maori's I've been to the Meadowlands and seen some of the best in North America do 53.8, mind you it was in front of another 53.8 so I suppose I don't get as emotional over it so times don't get to me as much on judging horses. i wasnt intending to compare Reactors 53.8 with the Meadowlands and open up the debate to all horses worldwide, i do believe we were debating/discussing NZ/AUS...so regardless of u experiencing such times in the USA and subsequently not being so impressed with those numbers, i dont see it relevant to bring up. Its like u are clutching at straws to water down the fact Reactor has done that and i dont believe any of the 5-6 u mention have.

As I said to Viv Strangman in another post, each race constitutes a different set of circumstances so times can sometimes become misleading.

53.8 is no better in context than a horse having to go three-wide from say the 1,000m in a race when they go 56 home as him/her being out three-wide is chugging along a lot harder and quicker than 56 in order to win. That's toughness, willingness, etc, etc that I suppose I admire as having been involved in training horses, I love to seem them give you everything to win. It doesn't mean it's better than the 53.8, just different circumstances.

All the Kiwi horses I named earlier who have consistently done the business have all had to climb off the canvas at one point or another in a race, or do some amazing feat/sectional to win, and they have done it multiple times. Sometimes they've done the unimaginable in defeat so it can be both ways. Reactor has really yet to do any of that at the GC level, hence I don't get awash with emotion until he proves it.

We can go back and forth all day - please be clear with what I said earlier, we are different, we judge horses differently, yet that doesn't mean I don't admire the horse, I'm just luke warm unlike others to his achievements vs. reputation.

anyway thats enough on the topic for me, but you can bet your bottom dollar if Reactor does win the Hunter we will get the excuse that it was a "weak" field.
btw i agree it is.

11:28pm Washakie, Lombo Pocket Watch and Has The Answers about to race in Perth...seeya.

And what a race. Washakie right on the line after looking a bit shakey down the back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by broncobrad

And what a race. Washakie right on the line after looking a bit shakey down the back.

Yeah, Washakie in the close up slow mo replay was literally 2nd about 10 inches from the line
Top run in death 1:56MR

Rumour going around that Reactor booked to fly home to NZ on Sunday