WA Pacing Cup - 11/01/2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mighty Atom

It's because of this continual one eyed eastern states parochialism that I have to continually reply in negative overtones to uphold WA harness racing, WA horses, Gloucester Park etc
Get these facts into your head. ( all from WA )
1. Northerly - second highest stakes earner in Aust thoroughbred racing
2. I'm themightyquinn - second highest stakes earner in Australian harness racing
3. Miata - second highest stakes earner in Australian greyhound racing
So how's that for defying your eastern states logic, just goes to show that WA punches way above it's weight.

Rod,
i havent bagged WA Harness in general at all, its obviously very strong and very financial, excellent.
As for Northerley, legend, trained by Fred Kersley from memory, he won his races emphatically and proved to be the best horse on the day so many times, touched up Sunline no worries.
I am NOT anti WA horses or WA anything. As i said on the SA Cup thread " its a shame other people cant simply assess a race or horses performance based on the physical facts and mathematics of a horses skill speed and stamina". This is how i assess Quinn against the rest of australias top horses, i dont care if he lives in Perth, Melbourne or wherever.
If Blacks a Fake raced in Darwin for huge prizemoney (yes i know theres no track there...) and hardly ever was challenged by Feelgood Trigger Quinn Elsu whoever, i would simply ask the same questions as i ask of Quinn. He is often lauded as Australia best pacer, and i simply challenge that, my proof of that was the Vic Cup, he had every chance, got to the lead, couldnt do it against those guys when not at home on his little track where he is near unbeatable (if driven well and nothing goes wrong).
Look hes obviously an extremely good horse, would love to own him, of course, but heres the thing Rod...for me Australias BEST HORSE is no sit sprinter.
Pure Steel, now theres a great horse, loved watching him race at Moonee Valley and when i compare him to Quinn for me Steelo wins every time, guts, stamina, never give in attitude. Now as i asked you somewhere in some thread why cant Quinn be here AS MUCH AS PURE STEEL WAS??? He travelled ok he beat all horses no problem over here all the time, so...........why cant Quinn?
Answer is all horses are different, some tougher than others, owned by different people, so different ideas on where and when to race.
As admitted by Jnr WA Cup night on Sky Racing, words to the effect of "we 100% know now not to use him up at the start" referring to Vic Cup.
This is Australias BEST horse? No, hes Australias best sit-sprinter who needs everything to go right for him.
Steelo didnt have that
Preux Chevalier didnt have that
Trigger certainly doesnt have that,
Feelgood didnt have that,
Blackie certainly didnt have that.
Does that make any sense Rod? I know hes a very very good horse, no doubt....but...
So im assessing him on these things that are facts, nothing else, nothing to do with Perth bashing at all Rod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

Every other consideration & calculation aside, I just love ITMQ for his absolutely blazing high speed. If there's a bigger & better & more effective weapon to be used in a horse race than that which he & Jnr use so effectively...I'm yet to see it.

Hi Jaimie,
Always look forward to reading your posts and you're the only one on the forum I would avoid in a debate - I'd be history.
Sounds like a bit of sucking up ........ not meant to be - just intelligent debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clumsy

Ash
You want to put down the horse because he comes from WA, which sees him racing for the best of prize money. You will never know how good he may have been if he had of been a NSW horse racing out of the McCarthy stable. I am sure he would have been one of the best horses in the eastern states.

Hi Greg,
Pls see my post number 61 which explains i am not anti WA...

Re Quinn at Menangle, i think the long straight would be his worst enemy. Unless he is saved to the last 100-200m which would be hard to achieve all the time, when exposed too early i think he would be found wanting at the post.
Just my opinion.
watch this... http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=ME261111&rn=8 2011 Miracle Mile
Karloo Mick was level with Quinn at the top of the Menangle straight and beat him home...???????????

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Mac

Sensational isn't it?
As I said to a mate over there a little while ago, he has re-defined 'normal' on that track. Only the really special ones do that.

[VVV] G'day Glen,
I've always been really taken by that tip to the outside and explode sort of speed that you see now and again.
Another horse that comes to mind that had it was Chandon. There's horse in the US that has it too...Hurrikane Kingcole. He'd be a current season 4yo now, it has been a while since I've seen a faster horse point to point & there is /was a Jate Lobell horse standing stud in VIC I think, On The Attack...and he had it too, maniac high speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maorisidol

Rod,
i havent bagged WA Harness in general at all, its obviously very strong and very financial, excellent.
As for Northerley, legend, trained by Fred Kersley from memory, he won his races emphatically and proved to be the best horse on the day so many times, touched up Sunline no worries.
I am NOT anti WA horses or WA anything. As i said on the SA Cup thread " its a shame other people cant simply assess a race or horses performance based on the physical facts and mathematics of a horses skill speed and stamina". This is how i assess Quinn against the rest of australias top horses, i dont care if he lives in Perth, Melbourne or wherever.
If Blacks a Fake raced in Darwin for huge prizemoney (yes i know theres no track there...) and hardly ever was challenged by Feelgood Trigger Quinn Elsu whoever, i would simply ask the same questions as i ask of Quinn. He is often lauded as Australia best pacer, and i simply challenge that, my proof of that was the Vic Cup, he had every chance, got to the lead, couldnt do it against those guys when not at home on his little track where he is near unbeatable (if driven well and nothing goes wrong). Ignore the fastest ever lead time...
Look hes obviously an extremely good horse, would love to own him, of course, but heres the thing Rod...for me Australias BEST HORSE is no sit sprinter.
Pure Steel, now theres a great horse, loved watching him race at Moonee Valley and when i compare him to Quinn for me Steelo wins every time, guts, stamina, never give in attitude. Now as i asked you somewhere in some thread why cant Quinn be here AS MUCH AS PURE STEEL WAS??? He travelled ok he beat all horses no problem over here all the time, so...........why cant Quinn?
Answer is all horses are different, some tougher than others, owned by different people, so different ideas on where and when to race.
As admitted by Jnr WA Cup night on Sky Racing, words to the effect of "we 100% know now not to use him up at the start" referring to Vic Cup.
This is Australias BEST horse? No, hes Australias best sit-sprinter who needs everything to go right for him. So if Smoken Up drew barrier one, gets crossed at the start and they go slow, meaning its a sprint home and Trigger can't sprint with them...does that he means he needs things to go right for him as well?
Steelo didnt have that
Preux Chevalier didnt have that
Trigger certainly doesnt have that,
Feelgood didnt have that, Yes he did? Biggest victory of his Aust career was sit sprint. ITMQ would be just as tough as him, but when he has the best sprint play to your strenghts.
Blackie certainly didnt have that. Didn't have the same speed either.
Does that make any sense Rod? I know hes a very very good horse, no doubt....but...
So im assessing him on these things that are facts, nothing else, nothing to do with Perth bashing at all Rod.

So because you have a personal preference for one style over another, it means ITMQ can't be the best.
I have a preference for midfielders rather than forwards who do no work and get the ball kicked to them, doesn't mean Wayne Carey wasn't the best footy player when he played. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

[VVV] G'day Glen,
I've always been really taken by that tip to the outside and explode sort of speed that you see now and again.
Another horse that comes to mind that had it was Chandon. There's horse in the US that has it too...Hurrikane Kingcole. He'd be a current season 4yo now, it has been a while since I've seen a faster horse point to point & there is /was a Jate Lobell horse standing stud in VIC I think, On The Attack...and he had it too, maniac high speed.

There have been many sit sprinters in WA that hit their mark early because the track just isn't suitable for that. You can't get back in the last three and expect to go 3 and 4 wide on the home turn at GP and expect to round them up in FFA company. So they ended up being shifted off to the US. A beautiful chestnut called The Ice Man springs to mind. Cost me a fortune but I kept backing him because he was so exciting. ITMQ has the burst to let the rest do the work and smash them on that track.

Looking forward to seeing him go around in the ID. Driven differently at the start I think he would have won the most recent Miracle Mile @ Menangle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

Looking forward to seeing him go around in the ID. Driven differently at the start I think he would have won the most recent Miracle Mile @ Menangle.

Lets use the same "if only"
If Smoken up didn't break in the ID final, I don't think IMQ could have given him that much start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maorisidol

Hi Greg,
Pls see my post number 61 which explains i am not anti WA...

Re Quinn at Menangle, i think the long straight would be his worst enemy. Unless he is saved to the last 100-200m which would be hard to achieve all the time, when exposed too early i think he would be found wanting at the post.
Just my opinion.
watch this... http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=ME261111&rn=8 2011 Miracle Mile
Karloo Mick was level with Quinn at the top of the Menangle straight and beat him home...???????????

Hi Ash
have read most of your posts regarding ITMQ and Im starting to think how you can sleep at night.This horse is a big problem for you.
I dont think you can accept what he has achieved.Im not going to speak for him because his record does that.
Its funny that when the great horses came over for the Inters last year and in the Final..when the big money was there..they just weren't right.I see you offering excuses..yet when Quinnie travels and races in the big races and doesn't win you attack his credibility as a champion horse.I havent seen anywhere where you have said..gee I wonder if he was at the top of his game...perhaps he was down just a tad.No just straight out the horse is no good.It is this that taints all your posts for me.And the general put down of our other good WA horses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mighty Atom

It's because of this continual one eyed eastern states parochialism that I have to continually reply in negative overtones to uphold WA harness racing, WA horses, Gloucester Park etc
Get these facts into your head. ( all from WA )
1. Northerly - second highest stakes earner in Aust thoroughbred racing
2. I'm themightyquinn - second highest stakes earner in Australian harness racing
3. Miata - second highest stakes earner in Australian greyhound racing
So how's that for defying your eastern states logic, just goes to show that WA punches way above it's weight.

Don't you dare compare ITMQ to Northerly! - Northerly won most of his coin against the very best on the biggest stages. Northerly out and out gun, proven champion of his time against anything around, including Europe's horse of the year.