I see Dean Atkiinson i advertising agistment available
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I see Dean Atkiinson i advertising agistment available
Not a good start for HRNSW at the enquiry
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horserac...112-1pxj4.html
Agreed not a great start when it is labeled farcical by the media on day one. Just prey the police can get this sorted because it's not looking great for hrnsw.
Sheez! If they cannot link O'Toole to that phone number we most likely have a shambles
So we have Atkinson pleading guilty to bribing former steward M. Bentley who has not even been charged by NSW Police or faced any action from HRNSW other than tending his resignation back in August.
Then we have Greg and Ben Sarina making numerous calls to a phone number that they can only identify belongs to a person named Nathan Miles, with no evidence that Paul O'Toole owned or used that particular phone number.
5 months in the making and this is the best the HRNSW special investigation panel can do? Dear god.
Did you people not read the press coverage the evidence relied upon by HRNSW in relation to the user of the phone was supplied to HRNSW by the police task force... one would presume this is the same evidence the police intend to rely upon in there upcoming prosecution of Paul O'Toole.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rainmaker
Judge Haylan said at this stage he was not convinced by this evidence and an adjournment was given, if the judge in the court case is also not convinced it is not the HRNSW investigation under threat but the whole case appears to be crumbling.
Many have suggested that this should be left to the police to handle and it appears that is what the HRNSW investigative panel have done in relation to phone records. Amazing how in evidence despite making 70 calls to the number in question in 12 months Sarina did not know the owner of the number.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/...-1226243046107
Hi VOR
I would just like to know your thoughts about the use of a judge or retired judge in all major stewards inquires. I personally believe that the use of stewards acting as prosecution and then judging there own case serves harness racing well on race day when a result needs to be achieved by the start of the next race.
A person judging there own procicution IMO is always going to have some biased. I ask this question basically because hrnsw stewards have had a fairly ordinary record as far as appeals and think this may well be a reflection of stewards believing they have proved a case when in reality they haven't and it is subsequently lost on apeal.
I personally like the idea basicly because it forced the stewards to get it right the first time and not loose on appeal. I would love to hear your thoughts though. I imagine judges or retired judges don't come cheap but I think the cost would be worth if it saw less cases lost on apeal particularly the ones that shouldn't be lost.
Tiny
I can not add much to your post because in my view you have covered all of the relevant points.
There is no doubt that the cost structure increases greatly when you have to use legal people.
RacingNSW have a slightly different appeals process where there is a first level of appeal where although the person in charge of the appeal is a legally trained he is also very experienced in the racing industry.
This has a three fold effect at appeal level it gives both the stewards and the appellant a chance to put there case to someone with an understanding of the sport If you like a bit like the NRL tribunal.
If the appeal is dismissed it makes it a little harder for it then to be overturned at the next appeal level because two courts if you like have confirmed the finding of guilt. This also means lees gallops cases actually get to the racing appeals tribunal, all in all a better system.
You may well be interested to know the dogs stewards who also have the same system as Harness with no first appeal have a similar record as the trot stewards at the racing Appeals Tribunal.
I am not sure if you have ever taken the time to read some of the appeal findings in NSW under some of the previous judges but it will make you laugh.
Thanks VOR
I had never taken much interest in regards to regulatory matters in harness racing until the swab scandal.
The former chief steward did some very good work in regards to uncovering a shocking case of race fixing only to have the case lost on appeal. IMO it was a poor judgement by the stewards on there own evidence. I believe had someone independent to this case was appointed more attention to detail may well have been taken.
Also the two trainers that got disqualifications last year on prima facie swabs was not good law and had ever case been appealed they would have been lost a appeal.
Also the case yesterday had a finding of guilt been found at the initial stewards inquiry this case may well too have been lost on apeal. Something I am Glad didn't happin thanks to the judge precluding over the case.
I think if harness racing want to make some changes to the regulation of harness racing post swab scandal this will be a great place to start. Independent judges at major stewards inquires bring it on.
Stewards judging there own procicutions will always be biest and result in cases where convictions should stick being lost on appeal when they shouldn't.
The point I'm trying to make and didn't make that well is:
Some people who IMO should be on the side lines aren't because the cases are lost on appeal because of bad law at the initial stewards inquires.
Others are spending long stints on the side lines when IMO they shouldn't be because of bad law at stewards inquires.
It is important they get this right because a lack if public confidants in the sport stems from these very issue.
Sanders argued that evidence gathered by police Strike Force Tairora proved the number was being used by O'Toole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thevoiceofreason
Atkinson gets 10 years
http://www.harness.org.au/images/ico-doc.gif31 Jan - Special Stewards Panel - Decision Mr Dean Atkinson
The Special Stewards Panel set up by HRNSW to inquire into and investigate matters pertaining to the current HRNSW investigation into alleged corrupt and improper practices within the NSW harness industry has handed down its decision regarding the three (3) charges issued against licensed trainer Mr...
Read More
Dean Atkinson pleaded guilty........so hopefully the others get double.
Has there been any further progress to this scandal or have the investigators hit a brick wall? There is usually a whisper about any investigations or probes occurring but nothing has been mentioned by anyone, anywhere. It feels like it has been thrown into the too hard basket or there is nothing new to report and the only prosecutions that will happen are the ones we all know about. It will be good if that's the entire scope of the scandal but there still has to be a Mr Big that was pushing all the buttons that hasn't been charged as yet.
6 days is a massive amount of time to wait.........not.
. I asked if any further investigations have uncovered anymore that we didn't know already.Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebreno
.
Gen Y, short attention span. Young ones these days, back in my day it was a lot different with respect for elders. (Tounge in cheek - I finished high school only in recent years)
To answer your question, I'm sure the well hasn't dried up just yet.
Hopefully he will transfer to Collingwood or Geelong one day and then it may be fortunate. I don't really follow the AFL.
just posted this in general chat in reply to Dan but posting it here as well......I don't care what anyone thinks because its THE TRUTH
Yes i would have left too & probably will .I have always enjoyed the sport but not so much now. Went back & had a look there has been 23 positives in a relative short period , we have EPO,Meth, arsenic, bute,testosterone (that's a steroid),ibuprofen,& your good old bicarb etc. Its a disgrace & do any of these cheats care who they are ripping off.......NO, THEY DO NOT...You have guys with POSITIVES racing in Hunter Cups & Interdoms.... that in itself is WRONG.......You have guys listed on the O'Toole charge sheet STILL winning races......these grubs run this sport, NOT the stewards or the CEO..... Sam need to step up and put into place lengthy sentences for cheats & stick to it....eg 12 mts bi carb, 5years anything else as there is no real DESCENT penalty for these cheats. AND THESE CASES NEED TO BE DELT WITH QUICKLY. And mark my words some named in the O'Toole case will get away with it! Things need to change NOW before its too late. Obviously I'm Pissed off big time!
Well said Peter.
From what I hear at the tracks, your point about those named in the O'Toole report still winning races, is the single most damaging thing within the Industry at the moment.
Like you the clean Trainers and Drivers are Pissed off and I get the feeling many would give it away if they could but most have no other trades to fall back on.
Time to act boys.........More damage done each week
What i was told yesterday that even the good guys are now having to resort to other means to compete.I believe one cleanskin was recently done for co2 trying to compete.
Told that too, sad isn't it that he felt he had to lower himself to the SCUM level but then again he had a choice, they will get caught..........Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
I had a good source tell me back in August when this first came to light a couple of players involved in this scandal, sure enough they were the ones charged in November. Then just before Xmas time I was told another 2 players were due to be stood down, one whos horses were in rare "2010" form last night and ripped over 60k prizemoney from honest participants on last nights efforts alone and another whos name was branded about in the media for receiving a warning letter back in August, and still nothing. The boys seem to have gone quiet on this...... where are you Sam?
This is so widespread cheats are being caught in all racing districts, and in most cases are not receiving big enough disqualifications to discourage them. They just change their horses over to a relative and continue to train the horses on the same property. Refuse to take a swab and get a minimum disqualification, as has happened with two trainers recently. Untill the authority get serious the industry will only detoriate further.
I also heard that some will get away with the drug/betting scandal as they were smarter than others! Found that hard to believe but apparently true.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rainmaker
There will be more on this come out after next Fridays court cases of Bennett and O'toole. But the above mentioned seemed to be covered in I thick layer of Teflon and nothing will stick.
As for the swabs it just showes what complete joke regulation of harness racing has become. Trainers know they are gone but can have cases put off for long periods never seen before.
I accept the wheels of justice turn slowly. But a HRNSW they have all but stopped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiny
You may be correct Tiny
As for the swabs you are correct IT IS A JOKE.
The CEO needs to implement a NEW rule to speed up the swab process, he can do this because he is the BOSS.
Victoria is very slow with inquiries etc only found out about the Jack one by contacting Harness board and asking.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiny
Agree with you totally Peter.
Clumsy, I have watched you bad mouth a certain trainer in the area before, namingly david kennedy and here you go again. Just cant help yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by clumsy
Doesnt take much to look at some facts. He would be the most swabbed trainer in the Riverina and yes he got a positive admitted to giving the supplement to another horse and there might of been some form of contemination. At albury a horse wins dave waits around for ever for the stewards to come swab, after hearing he lost the race on protest and still no one showing up to take the swab her leaves. Minimum suspension? in the last 2 years i expect he would of had atleast 150 pre or post race swabs and had 1 positive, hes been in the industry for 30 years and thats his first one, 3 months is still rather hefty considering others were getting reprimands not that long ago.
Now lets look you yourself, well i assume shaun snudden the registed trainer in the riverina area is some relation. Stylishgate personal MR of 2.08 and 2.07.4 in his 2 runs before today. First up for shauns stable set alight and was making good ground unlucky to be beat (was backed a fair bit).. Billy Branach 2.07(1700) the start before joining the stable first run personal mile rate of 1.58 that is massive improvement..... not saying surgesting any wrong doings simply want to show that it doesnt always mean something is dodgy just cause a horse improves and that you should know facts before you throw statements around,
[QUOTE=tiny;16880]There will be more on this come out after next Fridays court cases of Bennett and O'toole. But the above mentioned seemed to be covered in I thick layer of Teflon and nothing will stick.
Tiny is the teflon because they worked their rorting through others ??????
Talk about a horse IMPROVING...........Quote:
Originally Posted by trotsfan
Parkes....race 5
Strong Sapphire
form last 5 races...8 8 6 4 6
wins by 29.3mtrs
runs 1.55.9 for the mile
??????????????????????
We were disqualified from a race at Wagga for going inside the pegs and were swabbed after the race. We also had a winner swabbed 2 hours after a race at Wagga. Most of our winners are swabbed and plenty of our starters are pre race swabbed, we have also had two steward inspections on our stables over the past twelve months. All of these things are stewards doing their job and are nothing to be afraid of if you are doing the right thing. As for form reversals, yes Shaun has had to explain a few of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by trotsfan
As for my post which part of it is not the truth or are you a bit sensitive about the truth.
I think you will find that the trainer you continually attack has had more then his fair share of inspections, delayed swabs and questions over form reversals, i just wanted to point out they are possible and you dont need to attack someone who has done alot for harness racing in the riverina (one of the biggest things is nominating horses at the request of hrnsw so that races hold up)Quote:
Originally Posted by clumsy
seen that and the weirdest thing was he was backed rather heavily for what his form surgestsQuote:
Originally Posted by peteboss4
Not one to just accept an improved performance without an inquiry, I can't see anything posted just yet by the stewards panel. Just a quick check on Strong Sapphires racing performances. From a total of 97 lifetime starts her record reveals 20 overall wins. However the mare has had 20 starts for 11 wins, four placings and a D. at the Parkes showgrounds. There is definitely something in the water at that track that the stable should start bottling. Her most dominant win and an unbelievable mile rate on the tight circuit.
Shaun is a professional trainer both these horses were trainer by hobby trainers before so you would expect some improvement? Plus Shaun's record speaks for itself he can train a horse.Quote:
Originally Posted by trotsfan
I am having a go at HRNSW about the length of some of their penalties and how they enforce them, this is my opion and I do not expect everyone to agree with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by trotsfan
You made this post a personal attack by mentioning the names of two respected trainers in the Riverina. The stable you are going to bat for are the most successfull stable in the Riverina, and good luck to them, they work hard for their success. Perhaps what has happened to them recently is all about bad management, but the fact remains you still have to do the time.
Good luck to the stable I Am sure they will come back bigger and better than ever.
Why do people say "they will be back bigger and better than ever"? Does that mean they haven't given 100% or that after a break they have developred some magic formula to improve what they were doing before? Explain how they will be bigger and better.