http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=16473
Nice work Mightymo.
Printable View
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=16473
Nice work Mightymo.
It will be expensive if you are to buy a colt from n.z and bring him out here to race.
Good.
If you bring a colt out to race the fee will be $5k what is the current fee, also there will be an Imported semen foal registration fee of $500 for colts and $250 for fillies does the breeder get slugged this fee ????
Not sure. Mightymo might care to step in here and elaborate?
QUOTE [ The Panel also revamped the Sires Fertility List to include Positive Tests, to more accurately reflect the performance of the Stallion. Previously, a mare dying, a mare slipping or a foal dying counted against a Stallions fertility performance.
These changes now determine the Stallions' performance based on positive tests as a percentage of total services.
Based on the 2009/2010 statistics, the Stallion Fertility percentage rose from 62.15% to 73.94% as there were 992 more positive tests than the live foals figure reflects ] END QUOTE.
:D
that fee of 5k wouldnt last 5 seconds... absolute breach of world trade agreements, you cannot restrict NZ's who own colts trying to sell them into aussie without grounds for health, quaratine or native resource depletion
You pay an import fee now $500 for a colt or geld and $150 for a filly or mare in NSWQuote:
Originally Posted by mango
I think the higher import fee's are a good idea it can only help promote our own breeding industry that is sadly lacking in incentives to breed that 1 extra wether to race yourself or sell
in the education,training strategy to get live foals to track i believe a lot of horses just aren't given enough time because the owner's want that early 2yo money if they don't come up quick a lot of them are invariably dogged for the simple reason they weren't mature enough at that stage of their life and because of the cost's are got rid of because of lack of patience and being able to give them time as another 12 month's is more dead money in agistment cost's etc
C'mon Smithy, surely you can do better than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by smithy
Breach of WTA's my hairy backside. The Australian Harness Racing Industry can do whatever it so pleases as far as its import fee structure is concerned.
It is free to do so in the very same fashion as the NZ Industry has for whatever reason long seen fit to ban the importation and use of Australian made Race Bikes.
Hi GregQuote:
Originally Posted by Greg Hando
I agree with raising the import fee but to $5k for a colt is absurd, maybe they should of lifted it from $500 to $2k at most but thats just my opinion and fillies and mare's should be kepted at there same fee as the majority of them become future broodmare's in our country. I don't think this will change people's idea's on keeping horses and breeding 1 more mare per year as we can see now the decline of breeding has already started and people prefer to buy a yearling or a going horse which takes a lot of risks out from rearing a foal and so on. You can buy decent yearling's these day's for not much more than the service fee sometime's. Some people don't want horses sitting in a paddock for 12 months whilst still outlaying money on agistment, worming, hoof trimming and getting there teeth done they mostly listen to there trainers and if he say's the horse ain't know good or might win 1 at most whats the use of spelling paying agistment and then 12wks pay to the trainer to get that horse to the track to win 1 race you will be running at a loss.
Hi TripleQuote:
Originally Posted by triplev123
I think this is a great idea and if i remember rightly you brought this exact subject up a couple of months ago in a previous post. Maybe they should call it the Triple stats lol.
:D:D:D:D:D Proud to say that was the centrepiece of my submission and I'm absolutely bloody thrilled that it was adopted. On & off I have been banging away at the relevance to Breeders of the previous format for some 15 years or so....and it actually goes way back to the battles fought in the early to mid 1990's here in NSW when I was on the NSWSBA along with Garry Reid. We got the then NSW Sires Stakes prizemoney evened up for the Fillies & the Colts but I could never get this across the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by mango
It's very, very satisfying to see this finally grow wings & fly Mango and to say that I am a a VERY happy camper this morning would be an understatement. :cool:
G'day Mango,Quote:
Originally Posted by mango
Why is it absurd?
Along with a number of others you seem to have completely overlooked the fact that the brief given to the Panel was a focus on the AUSTRALIAN Breeding Industry, not on that of NZ, the US or CAN.
How else exactly do you expect the rest of the proposals contained in that report to be funded?
The 5k Import Fee for colts, geldings & entires is not going to be an additional charge for starters. Instead, along with the shipping charges it will come straight off the top of the prices paid for NZ bred stock. What do you care if the Kiwi sellers end up getting 5k less for the exported male going horses? That charge is factored into the overall landed price. I find it absolutely astonishing that any Oz Breeders would give a bugger.
Hey Triple
A lot of horses are purchased privately and then you have to organise transport and so on yourself so how does the $5k come of the purchase price. Personally i don't give a bugger as i don't race colts/gelding's but i have a few mate's who do so i'm looking at this from both side's.
Simple. The cost of the transport and importation comes off the top of the purchase price because you factor it into how much you're willing to pay for the horse to start with, the price you're willing to fork over exclusive of additional charges. For example if you're aiming up on a 50k landed buy out of NZ then the price the seller actually gets for the horse is $AUS50k less transport and import costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mango
Under this 5k proposal & using the $AUS50k landed as a figure...at a guess the seller gets something in the vicinity of $AUS42k if you're going to do the crossing by boat...which it is worth noting is still around $NZ52,750.
Hey Triple
That will be correct if you do the deal with an agent where they quote the price as $50k landed, Say you purchase a horse in n.z for $50k without the agent you then have to organise and pay transport costs and a few other charges and then you will have to pay the $5k import fee. Not all sale's are done on the deal where it includes being landed which means the buyer here in Aus pay's the $5k.
You're missing the point mate. It's not that complicated.
You don't pay the fee, you deduct it as a cost from your offer. In effect the seller pays the fee because they get less for their horse. If, again for an example, you have a budget of $AUS50k landed (and I assume most everyone has a budget of some description or if not then a general idea of what they wish to spend) then it is no different.
Landed does not automatically = the involvement of an agent. Landed is Landed, it is the all costs included price of a horse when it walks off the truck & into your barn. Agents & private sellers alike can quote all the prices they like. What you'll see fit to offer them is up to you.
I'm not missing the point at all, if the seller want's $50k for the horse and know less how do you deduct it ($5k)from the offer . At present if i was to buy a horse for $50k direct of the seller as that was a price he wanted and i agreed to then yes i'm aware that tranport and them thing's are my costs and at present i'm aware that the $500 import fee is what i have to pay when it arrive's. But under this new system it won't be $500 i'll pay but $5k. Do you honestly think people are going to take less for there horses if they have $50k firm on them, your saying either offer them $45k or tell them they will have to pay the import fee i wreckon they'll jump at that deal. How many seller's are going to take less for a horse due to people on this end having to pay an extra $4.5k on import fee's.
Originally Posted by mango
I'm not missing the point at all, if the seller want's $50k for the horse and know less how do you deduct it ($5k)from the offer .
At present if i was to buy a horse for $50k direct of the seller as that was a price he wanted and i agreed to then yes i'm aware that tranport and them thing's are my costs and at present i'm aware that the $500 import fee is what i have to pay when it arrive's.
[VVV] You are indeed missing the point. At the risk of causing poor old Breno unpleasant flashbacks & assorted nightmares, it is known as a 'Free Market'. Sellers can have an asking price of whatever they like, buyers can make offers below that if they so wish. The seller is asking 50k and no less. Good for him. That doesn't stop you offering 45k or 40k or whatever price you please. Maybe you're feeling generous one day & by way of furthering trans Tasman relations you decide the horse is too cheap and you slip them 55k. That's entirely up to you also.
But under this new system it won't be $500 i'll pay but $5k.
[VVV] You won't. Indirectly the seller will pay it because they've received 5k less for their horse as you will have deducted all of your costs to land the horse in Oz from your offer.
Do you honestly think people are going to take less for there horses if they have $50k firm on them, your saying either offer them $45k or tell them they will have to pay the import fee i wreckon they'll jump at that deal.
[VVV] Yes, I most certainly do. It will simply be another cost that's factored into the final agreed price along with the transport, insurance, GST etc etc etc. Ultimately... the fact is that the Kiwis HAVE TO SELL. It is by no means a secret that they produce well in excess of the number of horses they require to fill their race fields and they have done for as long as I can remember.
How many seller's are going to take less for a horse due to people on this end having to pay an extra $4.5k on import fee's.
[VVV] Ultimately, in one form or another...every single one of them.
Mango, this report & the various proposals contained therein are squarely in keeping with the brief given to the Panel.
In its entirety it is about furthering the interests of the Australian Breeding Industry...not those of NZ or for that matter the US or CAN. There are indeed aspects of the overall document that I don't happen to agree with and that will almost always be the case with any such report...however this is most certainly not one of them. A reading of the entire report and a placing of this aspect of it in context rather than railing against it in isolation would not go astray.
Grandad kept a horse once till he was a 3 yo before he was sold as he needed time the horse went on to win an Inter had he been sold as a yearling he would have lost his head long before his 3rd birthdayQuote:
Originally Posted by mango
and i think a lot of the time extra time will pay off for a lot of horses i agree with you if the trainer thinks the horse will only win 1 race though you get rid of it with the import fee being 5k for colt's it is good it may help the breeder get that bit extra for a yearling instead of only not much more than the service fee
I was only young when I met your grandfather at the Sales once many years ago Greg. Good bloke, very friendly. Old School. A Gentleman.
With the putting back of the sales for 8 - 10 weeks my only problem with it is west of the mountains it's start's to get a bit cold of a night come March and would IMO make it a lot harder to present with good coat condition
especially for the Bathurst sale if they all were to go back 8 - 10 weeks
Yep and set in his ways and wont budge if he think's he's right his favourite saying is "I'll prove a point " although sometimes the point is never proved but wont admit he was wrong something else changed the point ha ha
the WTO was just a cheap shot to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by triplev123
i'm sure the kiwi's will just knock 5k off the price...
c'mon triple v you can see this is just going to make it more expensive for new owners coming into the sport that want a horse to race, its well known that people don't want fillies to race because there is limited opportunities for them (so obviously much much more needs to be done on this first), also BUT why isn't the 5k fee on ALL imported horses? i thought the idea is to boost the local industry's fillies that are bred?
i understand this is to support breeders but they have to realise they can't hurt someone else who isn't as interested in breeding their horses (5k could well be up to 25% tariff on top of a horse out of nz) - i can't see why HRA owners association would support this and if they do then theres a serous problem in that organisation
I think it is a way of trying to get new owner's to buy Aus bred horses to help out the breeding industry i don't see how it will make it more expensive for new owner's buy local and support our industry is what it is saying IMO i may be wrong on my interpretationQuote:
Originally Posted by smithy
Hi Greg
As a breeder myself i'd like to see them buy Aus yearling's/horses but sometime's the better and cheaper option is across the sea. I suppose there are alway's 2 way's at looking at thing's but at the end of the day the power's to be will make the decision on what they think is best for the Industry. I hope Triple is correct in saying the kiwi's will have to drop there price's and with the state of there prizemoney over there and surplus of horses they might have to.
greg please find me a horse with enough ability to race through to metro grade that is currently assessed a c1/2/3 for sale or better yet find me a 2 or 3 old good enough for derby or oaks heats....
you would be lucky to find a single horse for sale in aussie but 50 in NZ, we just aren't sellers of good horses, horses for less then 10k sure, but nothing decent
I agree with VVV nice work Mightymo.Quote:
Originally Posted by triplev123
The small matter of the 26% that you currently have up your sleave by way of the $Oz to $NZ Fx wouldn't come into it would it Smithy? Nah, of course not. Perish the thought. :p
Btw, I know of a couple of Oz bred, based & raced horses, one a current 2yo, one a current 3yo, that will race through their grades and at 4yrs+ will be good enough to win at Metro level. Not only that but the fellas that own them are sellers, always have been, always will be. I think the 2yo's a fair chance to develop enough between now and then to make a Derby Heat or two next year and while the 3yo has basically already missed his shots through circumstances beyond anyone's control, like his younger counterpart I've no doubt he'll go through to an M3-M4.
Irrespective of whether you like or dislike the report or parts thereof, can i please ask that you provide feedback in writing as suggested.
That way we can ensure that whatever changes are made, adequately reflect the industry as a whole
mate you know aussies aren't sellers and kiwi's are - that is the way it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by triplev123
inflating the price of horses is going against the very first point mentioned in the report- costs becoming too high for owners to break even (page 2 of the report)
To some extent that's true Smithy, that is basically the way it is...but make no mistake, there's nothing overtly more noble / more commercially minded about it as far as the Kiwis are concerned. Instead it is down to the fact that most Aussies aren't sellers because, unlike the Kiwis, they simply don't have to be. To start off with the Kiwis produce well in excess of the number of horses they'll require to fill their race fields every year & due to the addition of a number of things, not the least of which are a their harsh(er) handicapping system & a general lack of racing opportunities they simply have to sell, they have no other choice but to sell. Further to this (somewhat enforced by the circumstances) selling approach is the fact that for NZ, the US/CAN market has all but dried up so at present and for the foreseeable future Australia is pretty much their SOLE market.
That's not going to inflate the prices for going stock...it's all about supply and demand (sorry Breno).
If you're concerned about prices for going horses being inflated then might I suggest you consider those fellas over in WA who have been shelling out phone numbers in order to pick off the top end of the NZ going concerns...and in doing so duly raising the expectations of price for a swag lesser lights? They're belting the prices along way, way more than any increased charges/fees could ever do.
One trainer in W.A over the last couple of years has shelled out $4.2 mil on behalf of clients only to win back $1.7 mil, they made an offer of $150k on a 3yr old at Cambridge when i was there in early april.
peacock? oh wait you said WA.. woops
Hey Smithy....steady on with the comments about...
http://www.free-mobile-wallpapers.co...er-peacock.jpg
'The Colourful Bird'. :D:D:D:D
He's a relation of mine, though somewhat removed admittedly.
Thank you for the link to the report, what part/parts of the report will actually be acted upon?
Hi JustdoitQuote:
Originally Posted by justdoit
They would like feed back in writing regarding the report whether people like it or not so they can act upon what the industry want's.
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by triplev123
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgu...ed=0CCgQ9QEwAQ
Thats the easy bit; if you start talking deadweight loss I'm not going to be happy though....or a tax with the $5000 import fee and how that affects the supply and demand I'm going to be cranky !!!
Smithy just shop around you might be surprised at what horses are available if asked about wether for sale or not everything just about has a price
What part/parts of the report do the people here think will be acted upon?Quote:
Originally Posted by justdoit