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The season is near drawing to a close. Who do we think will take out
- Australian horse of the year
-Australian two year old of year (aswell as colt and filly)
-Australian three year old of the year (aswell as colt and filly)
-Australian trotter of the year.
Aswell as the state horses of the year?
Horse of the Year: Smoken Up or Im Themightyquinn depending on ID result. Make Mine Cullen for the mare.
2yos: Umm Sensational Gabby and ??? There is no real absolute standout whereas most years there is
3yos: Sushi Sushi and Courageous Annie but wouldnt surprise me if a couple others got it
Trotter: Sundons Gift but only just
3yo filly is the hardest by far as every major race was one by a dfferent horse:
NSW Oaks - Courageous Annie
Vic Oaks - Bettor Cover Lover
QLD Oaks - Forever Gold
Aust Oaks - Baby Bling
Vicbred Series - Bellas Delight
Breeders Challenge - Vertigal
Slightly lesser races:
APG series - Shezallattitude
Bathurst - Aussie made Lombo
It might come down to the breeders crown, although out of all the winners above, only bellas Delight and Aussie made Lombo are in the series.
Good Luck to the judges!!!!
Oops - APG race should be on a par with the various Oaks as it was a Gr1Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymo
I think its pretty clear cut Courageous Annie wins unless Bellas Delight/Aussie Made Lombo can demolish the ABC field and show they've improved since their let ups which looks unlikely given they both got beaten in heats.Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymo
I'm with you Breno i think Courageous Annie might just get it
i'm sure a kiwi horse can win it, its just based on any performance in aussie - as smoken up and imthemightyquinn were in contention in NZ
i think you would have to give to forever gold in front of couragies annie, destroyed her in the gold coast oaks, won the qld triad, won the governors cup beating ceasars folly, won the qld oaks in a jog beating baby bling, jennas higview, vertigal - (on form you'd say she would have easily won the aussie oaks and nsw breeders if eligible/turned up)..only beaten twice this season, once first up by casaers folly and 2nd in the gold caost oaks where she went huge
but i think bettor cover lover would have won any gr1 fillies race in aussie if she wasn't hurt and she was amazing in victoria oaks
artemis belle should be a contender, only filly to contest a derby, only beaten 4m in it too, won WA oaks and 200k - which is the most of any filly this season
Courageous annie kicked the wheels on the sulky in the gold coast oaks and pulled and also had a bruised hoof. That was her only defeat all season including holding two southern hempisphere records, winning the most 'star studded' oaks( Aussie made lombo, vertical, passions promise, bainfield Washington) and the nursery pace. Forever gold is a VERY nice horse but I'm just not sure if you could give an Australian title to a horse who hasnt left it's own state in it's career.
Did anyone see artemis belles race last night. Went very below par.
yeah im sure it wasn't the 57 first half after forever gold declared her on that made her stop
nsw oaks star studded?? - bettor cover lover dealt to everyone of those fillies in victoria
forever gold has done everything that was put in front of her and proved she was better than CA in the gold coast oaks
So you're saying Darrel Graham is a liar. And that Graham cares more about sticking to lying then racing the next week in a Group 1 $75K races? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by smithy
Courageous Annie was not beat on her merits in that race and thats final.
The award is not given to the horse that people think is the best. It is given to the best performed horse of that year.
Im a HUGE Courageous Annie fan, but I dont think she can win it. She won only 1 race of note and didnt compete in any others.
Forever Gold besides winning QLD Oaks. won the triad and also placed in Gr 3 Gold coast Oaks
Vertigal, besides winning Breeders Challenge was also placed in Gr 1 NSW and Aust Oaks.
Baby Bling besides winning Aust Oaks, won Gr 3 Gold Coast Oaks and 4th in Qld Oaks
If Bellas Delight or AML win the breeders Crown, then i think they jump to the top of the class.
Courageous Annie did also win the group two garrards nursey pace and a 15 000 heat of the nsw oaks
i missed the Seymour race - wish someone pointed that out earlier!:):)
Well, that being the case she is now definitely the clubhouse leader IMO, having won a Gr1 and a Gr 2
That's right Breno. She wasn't. I understand she had some foot soreness & despite DG's best efforts was not at her best in that race by any stretch of the imagination. We've all seen her when she was at the top of her game. Lightning in a bottle.Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebreno
You're just getting old & forgetful mate. Don't be too hard on yourself.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by mightymo
One of the two QLD fillies should win it. CA was the superstar in the early part of the season but FG was the one really going places.
Having said that, if Bellas Delight wins the BC then it has to be a massive hope too.
Better Cover Lover - no hope.
If bolded part was really the truth we wouldn't need voting; there would be a pre-determined formula involving No of wins, level of wins and prizemoney won. But alas its not; if there was a way to determine the best performed then there would be no debate. But there isn't. Subjective decision comes into this even if its against the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymo
By the way; you must have some 2yos in mind if you think the 3yo fillies is the hardest, who do you think will win 2yos? Genuine question as last year it was pretty clearcut Royal Verdict.
please - they ran a first half half in 57 she was never winning that race.... who put the cart on her that night? who wanted to get the cart as close to the horse as possible? its no ones fault but their own - you can't go around saying that race has less merit because she has a half arsed excuseQuote:
Originally Posted by aussiebreno
2yr old depends on the ABC final imo
i personally think they shouldnt include races that exclude horses ie state bred races and focus on derbies, oaks and other classics open to all comers
So you've deduced Darrel Graham and/or his strapper don't deserve 3yo filly of the year? I tend to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by smithy
I never said the race and the winner (Baby Bling was it?) loses merit; I said Courageous Annie didn't lose on her merits.
Half arsed excuse. Please. If it wasn't that bad the horse would have lined up and probably won $50K the next week (the average yearly wage). But you're right; its much better to go home and sulk and make excuses and lie and send a horse to the paddock then to continue on at the chance of winning an average years wage in 2 minutes.
im not saying they lied, im saying that you can't just have an excuse when you get beat, things happen in 99% of races
forever gold is a better horse then courageous annie imo - agree to disagree
How is the voting done on these award's is it picked by a panel on a point score system or who they think is the best ?
No one is saying that Darrel is a liar... he gave a reason for her poor performance. But on paper and paper only, it looks like she was taken on and she got beat. I do not feel trainer reasons for defeats should be taken into account when deciding awards. While Darrel is a great, honest bloke, some trainers are not and I think it's a dangerous precedent to set if reasons for defeats are taken into account when deciding awards. I mean who do you know who is telling the truth or telling a story to bolster up award/credibility claims - you would need to decide this for each an every nominee! Way too much discretion IMHO! What if one of the panel didn't like you! I think it should be strictly who won what and who they beat, purely what is on paper. It's a shame that Forever Gold didn't travel but I'm sure you'll find that she would have acquitted herself very well if she did. (Hopefully next year). I also can't wait for a Courageous Annie v Forever Gold match up and hope it is a true run and fair race with nothing going amiss :)Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebreno
These are probably more sentimental votes, I haven't been following the races as much as a I normally would so I don't really feel qualified to comment, but anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by macca11
Smoken Up for HOTY. 1:48 yeehaa! :)
The Arch Duchess for 2yo filly, she has been in almost every big race and travelled all over the countryside! Such an honest little filly.
2yo colts I have not followed at all.
Would like to see Excel Stride take 3yo colt honours as Lizzie is such a great person (yes, a biased answer).
Forever Gold is the best 3yo filly in the land IMHO but is will seriously go against her not traveling interstate. If she didn't win it I would like to see Courageous Annie win it, such a remarkable training performance to keep her up and running those times with only 1 defeat. 2 stakes wins I believe.
Let Me Thru for trotting HOTY.
I have been so busy with uni, haven't really followed them much this season.
agree with them but sushi sushi by streets in 3yr old of the year and he'll also get horse of the year after he wins the breeders crown
I just want to add, incase my post came across the wrong way, I do believe what Darrel said (heavens the horse got tipped out for a spell afterwards too!) as I personally know him and he is a great honest bloke. But I mean where do you draw the line? Not all trainers are like him. That's all (not intending to cause any offence). :)
My reasons for Forever Gold not winning was because she was a fishbowl champion; I didn't say because I believe Courageous Annie would spank her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashing Red
In a seperate point about Courageous Annie I said she had not been beat on her merits. When judging Courageous Annies credentials this can get taken into account as it isn't a direct comparison of who is a better horse; it is a sole judgement on the season of Courageous Annie.
The other bloke tried to say Courageous Annie had been beat on her merits; which has nothing to do with the award and changed the goal posts of my argument. It is complete bullshit Courageous Annie got beat on her merits; whether this affects the award or not.
The very reason I say Forever Gold can't win it as she was a fishbowl champion is because; as you said; you are guessing what she could have done throughout Australia.
Did you form this opinion when her connections informed the public that she was hitting the sulky and over-raced? Or in comparision with her other runs of the season? Or some other reason?Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebreno
And Smithy, you sound awfully familiar to a former poster here, old Buster! :p
i think you have him nailed Flashing. he likes multi pseudonyms! :):)
Beaten 40m says she raced below her form. Maybe she would have lost anyway I don't know, but beaten that far says she either lost a leg, Darrel Graham forgot to work her for the past month, Graham took the wrong horse to the race, or something went wrong eg hitting the cart. Of course something went wrong and if you (not you personally Flashing but people in general) can't accept that I feel very sorry for them as they obviously have lived a very hard life and havn't got over people lying ever since they found out Santa Claus wasn't real!Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashing Red
lmao! What? Santa Claus isn't real? I agree with you, (re Courageous Annie) anyway :) I don't know where I got it from, but I thought that there might be a chance she'd retire? I hope not - I'm a weirdo, yes, but I couldn't wait for the Forever Gold v Courageous Annie clash, it was such a let down with things going amiss. I was hoping there would be a round two! Just like I really enjoyed the Blacks A Fake v Mr Feelgood clashes (and Albion Park marketed (sp? Is there such a word Rhodes Scholar? lol) it perfectly!)
Weirdo - far from it.
I think Montana mentioned on this forum retirement is a live option. Yes, hope not. A clash between Forever Gold and Courageous Annie next season would be great!
Yep - in the Ladyship Mile please!! :)
Any change to these awards after yesterday?
What about state horses of the year? Would be interesting to know what people think.
Best trier - Palais Du Louvre
Best horse thats maybe generated (my sons doing) lots of interest beyond us 'old farts' - Palais Du Louvre
bellas delight 3yr old filly of the year
I would like to pose a question regarding `the best performed horse`, albeit a little late. Adhesive was recently awarded Australian 3yo Trotting filly of the year. She won one Group 1 race. Our Dolly Would won two. Both filly`s had other very good form, but does not Group One winning form be the criteria ? Or did the voters feel the South Australian Oaks not a real Group 1 race?
While not racing for a decent stake, it is still quite a healthy drive to Adelaide and as an Oaks, and Group One, should be recognised as such.
Accordingly, if the race is considered `easy`, then take your filly there and have a go!
If not, then do not allow these races to carry the title.
In my opinion, these awards are a popularity contest, nothing less.
And yes, I`m a little biased, being the owner of Dolly Would.
At least the Kiwi`s gave her their 3yo Trotting Filly of the Year award.
I'd say when judging more than one thing (No of G1 wins in this case) being taken into consideration. If it wasn't voted for there would be a set criteria.Quote:
Originally Posted by starkmarty
If you want to take one aspect of what judges would look at then look at prizemoney won. $60,000 compared to $20,000. Not to mention head to head record.
Theres a lot of different factors and I wouldn't be disapointed you didn't get the award; too heal the pain go and look at the trophies you received for the 2 oaks!
Martin. Firstly congratulations on having a very nice filly. Secondly, you pose an interesting question.
My understanding is that in awarding these "awards" they take into account a number of different factors.
Certainly, the number of Gr or listed races won, is considered, but they also take into account the strength of the races won or contested.
On a separate note, I was having a discussion earlier this week about black type and how certain races still maintain Gr 1 status as an Oaks or derby. My view is that there needs to be a national minimum in order to be a gr 1 . i know this would impact on Tas and SA in particular, but I think having a Derby or Oaks for 10K that carries Gr 1 status only serves to give more mares black type that really shouldnt have it. The same goes for time trials, but dont get me started on that...:):)