Resolved : HRV not editing the start of video replays

There is some controversy over R2 at Wang last night

You won't see it on the HRV replay as it begins some seconds after they have been released

You can see it on Sky/TAB replays (you will have to search back on Sky to find Wang R2)

http://www.skyracing.com.au/index.ph...emid=198&id=18

When you see the start you will notice that the Fr6 runner Crocodile Kid (eventual winner) had moved to behind the fav Fr5 before the green light came on

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...19#WNC10031909

You will notice a lot of coding in the Stewards Comments column

Should it have been called a false start

I did not see it live - I had not checked the calendar and thought all bar the Birchip meet HRV listed for yesterday were just trials. WHEN ARE HRV GOING TO STOP LISTING TRIALS (which then provide you with no info) and confuse you to as what is actually a meet

The Vic site has a link for reporting suspicious activity Keven. This is an integrity issue , they will investigate themselves and find no issues and you may go missing !

Begs the question - why was all clear declared? Stewards have adjourned an inquiry that should have been dealt with on the spot.

IMHO
The 6 was not behind the 5 when the starter let them go but the OPS & LCD looks right.
The two lots of D/S relate to interference after the start.
The INQADJ not related to the start.


Not a false start.

If you like coding in the stewards comments Kev, take a look at the Cup.

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Originally Posted by arlington

IMHO
The 6 was not behind the 5 when the starter let them go but the OPS & LCD looks right.
The two lots of D/S relate to interference after the start.
The INQADJ not related to the start.


Not a false start.

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I did not think they did
The drivers were certainly very animated after the finish line

Why do you think the start release is missing from the replay Wayne?

I was sent this twitter pic. Not saying it is precisely release point but 6 is a long way inside 5

The pic, it's a long way past barrier release Kev. See the red discs in the background.
As for the start missing from the HRA/V replay, I'd like to think it purely coincidental. As you said Kev it's readily available via SKY/TAB. I wouldn't think it was a thoughtless attempt to cover up as I couldn't see any need to.

green light

I guess it is individual interpretation. No doubt a few of us have watched it several times. To me that pic does not show the green light on but it may be closer than I think.

It is the fact that the start is missing from the replay what worries me

As for the coincidence - freaky coincidence.

I must say my initial thought was that editing would be stupid but it is just too convenient

Sky's would be the same footage wouldn't it - so I guess we can expect the replay to be fixed by Mediatec or whoever

Maybe some of Danno's cousin Mel has rubbed off on me

Kev, I refer to my post #8. The release point is way back where the red disc is in your pic. That's not up to interpretation is it?
It's easier to see the green light flash in a rolling replay.
Have you and others compared it to another 1800m race, pausing it immediately the green starts on both?
But from memory that wouldn't have appeased Mel either. May have if Michelle Pfeiffer was cast instead of Julia, works for me :o

Well given I can only view HRV replays Wayne I certainly haven’t paused this replay for comparison with any other from the 1800m start. Regardless of whether this particular instance of the absence of a portion of relevant vision ( score up, start and first instance of interference) is “pure coincidence” or not I don’t think the increased incidence of “traffic” on the forum and other social media regarding starts and starting procedures can be attributed to “pure coincidence”

And given that most of the posts on twitter are from the punting fraternity I can’t imagine it’s beneficial for turnover

Hi Dot,
I am only referring to one race in saying "I'd like to think it purely coincidental". I can't see how you could quote my thoughts, applying them to any other race, in any other way.
Agree, we'd like to keep the punters happy but it's clear, at least to me, the snapshot Kev put up from twitter clearly shows the start point in the distant background.
Given that a lot of punters would have access to the Sky/TAB replay I'd be surprised if this particular one would be detrimental.

I'm not a tweeter but I had a look around twitter and found the origin of Kev's snapshot.
Am I allowed to interpret the driver of the 5 horse in tweeting "the horse (6) started at my wheel" suggests the OPS was due to the 6 being at his outside wheel at release point? And, of course, I'm imagining the starter and chair of stewards saw it as such, hence the LCD, nothing harsher. Going back to Kev's introductory post, again my thoughts, a false start is out of the question.
If the question is should there be harsher penalties for OPS, that's another question.
Certainly unfortunate the start isn't on the HRA/V replay but using evidence which, in my opinion, is biased to support a cause can be more detrimental to the image. I'm not shooting the Messenger, I realise the pic was passed on to Kev to debate.
Is it worth any consideration the two most experienced starters have recently left?

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Originally Posted by arlington

I'm not a tweeter but I had a look around twitter and found the origin of Kev's snapshot.
Am I allowed to interpret the driver of the 5 horse in tweeting "the horse (6) started at my wheel" suggests the OPS was due to the 6 being at his outside wheel at release point? And, of course, I'm imagining the starter and chair of stewards saw it as such, hence the LCD, nothing harsher. Going back to Kev's introductory post, again my thoughts, a false start is out of the question.
If the question is should there be harsher penalties for OPS, that's another question.
Certainly unfortunate the start isn't on the HRA/V replay but using evidence which, in my opinion, is biased to support a cause can be more detrimental to the image. I'm not shooting the Messenger, I realise the pic was passed on to Kev to debate.
Is it worth any consideration the two most experienced starters have recently left?

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Away from this incident I think generally yes. Eg inside back row (SR1) starting on a third line pretty much behind SR2 should be DQ.

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Originally Posted by arlington

Hi Dot,
I am only referring to one race in saying "I'd like to think it purely coincidental". I can't see how you could quote my thoughts, applying them to any other race, in any other way.
Agree, we'd like to keep the punters happy but it's clear, at least to me, the snapshot Kev put up from twitter clearly shows the start point in the distant background.
Given that a lot of punters would have access to the Sky/TAB replay I'd be surprised if this particular one would be detrimental.

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Not your thoughts Wayne, your turn of phrase with regard to the increased social media traffic on starts in Victoria. You maybe perfectly willing to accept the missing footage as pure coincidence but for others that’s no so easy. I certainly don’t find coincidence an easy explanation to accept, but then my profession trained me not to be a big believer in coincidence. In both screenshots imo there is insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion. Yes in Kevs screen shot the red discs can be seen in the background but how do you determine conclusively from the screen shot that the start was effected there? ( it should have been is not proof that it was) . Like Kev Wayne I cant ascertain for certain that the green light was on in your screenshot, nor can I see the red discs.


Would it surprise you Wayne that the origin of the screen shot Kev posted is a professional Vic harness punter raising the start of this race with HRV stewards.

Dot, my turn of phrase was in answer to Kev asking Why do you think the start release is missing from the replay Wayne? I wouldn't have a clue, but is it that preposterous in answering I posed I'd like to think it purely coincidental. Is that a statement of acceptance, is it not more so a thought?
Might it have been better if I answered, imho, the missing footage is unrelated to what you've supposed in the title of the thread Kev? Would be my humble opinion, again a thought.

The increase in social media commentary on starts is not foreign to me. I certainly haven't suggested I'd rather HRV didn't correct this replay.

I did have a look at the SKY replay before I answered Kev and did say the green light was more evident in the rolling video footage compared to the still. That's with my eyes and only in my opinion. My reference to the red discs, in the background of the punter's snapshot.

Have previously known of that gentleman's connection with harness racing so no surprises and he has the opportunity to raise his concerns about the start of that race, as does anyone. You are suggesting he will make a formal complaint Dot? Would appreciate any follow up being posted here.

Having viewed the SKY replay again, it only makes me think the punter's snap is some 20 metres after the start was effected. I see no reason to change my thoughts on the start of that race.




Just my thoughts again, I wouldn't argue with Brenno's Eg as an example of the type of infringement that get's most people up in arms. But then again it might be some people sometimes. Might I think a punter who has cashed in with that type of manoeuvre only raised their arms a little? Yep, a DQ would sort that out.

No idea if he will make a formal complaint Wayne, presumably that’s a process actioned by something other then the use of the stewards twitter handle.

On the subjects of conspiracy theory and coincidences it’s past close of business Wednesday and no stewards report posted for the Wangaratta meeting..........

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Originally Posted by Dot

No idea if he will make a formal complaint Wayne, presumably that’s a process actioned by something other then the use of the stewards twitter handle.

On the subjects of conspiracy theory and coincidences it’s past close of business Wednesday and no stewards report posted for the Wangaratta meeting..........

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Have been informed David Hines from Mediatec tweeted in reply to the punter, and another, informing them the governing body, in this case HRV, doesn't upload the replays. Having said that, the stewards report...may very well be coincidental.

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Originally Posted by arlington

Have been informed David Hines from Mediatec tweeted in reply to the punter, and another, informing them the governing body, in this case HRV, doesn't upload the replays. Having said that, the stewards report...may very well be coincidental.

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.....and as of c.o.b. tonight, still no Wangaratta stewards report on the HRA website. I notice last night's report from Mildura was up by lunchtime though!

"Move along, nothing to see here!"

That was always likely Wayne, but did Mediatec advise why a portion of the replay was missing? I’m far from Julia Roberts or Michelle Pfieffer but if I channel my inner “Mel” it’s easy to say that even a junior advocate for the prosecutions next question would be did HRV direct Mediatec or anyone else to omit a portion of the race when the replay was uploaded?

Four business days, no stewards report....

Sorry, I'm trying to keep a straight face. How many Emmys did Mel's movie win? Did it really have that much influence on so many?

I believe David Hines reply was in answer to the supposition of an amazing coincidence. His reply, "Yes it is....".
Dot, if you believe a company such as Mediatec would jeopardise their integrity and business throughout the Asia Pacific region for the sake of one harness race, well.....
Have you had a look at some of the events they cover Dot?

Hard gig tonight. I hope the conspiracists have at least given a millisecond of thought the delay in uploading the stewards report might be due to some unfortunate personal situation or similar.... no your honour I don't know.

I know Kev likes the movie "That's Entertainment"

I might have to put this one on the playlist for the trip to the trots tomorrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=291ET6Py6H8

At the risk of prolonging this thread, I have to wonder why if David Hines is taking the trouble to reply to twitter, why doesn't he just fix the video to include the start - surely they would have it all on disk

Emmys are for Television Wayne not for Movies so I doubt any of Mel’s movies won an Emmy. Perhaps we need a stewards enquiry into that! Conspiracy Theory wasn’t one of my favourites, Galliopli and the Lethal Weapon franchise did it for me.

It’s not what I think Mediatec do or don’t do or would or wouldn’t do Wayne, just an alternative to your apparent acceptance that Mediatec saying that the governing body doesn’t upload the videos that the governing body couldn’t influence what was uploaded.

And that Wayne is not saying that I believe that HRV did instruct that the video was edited or that they didn’t, that is me doing what I do, which is consider all the alternatives. That goes for the stewards reports as well. But I think we can both agree that a replay with a portion missing and a minimum four day delay in posting a stewards report is unusual.

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Originally Posted by Messenger

At the risk of prolonging this thread, I have to wonder why if David Hines is taking the trouble to reply to twitter, why doesn't he just fix the video to include the start - surely they would have it all on disk

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I'll hypothesise, why not I'm sure the thread will go on - the query he knew of was via twitter. He tweeted fairly quickly to the question on the night. From memory his reply/tweet was the last in that thread which might suggest the query was answered and accepted by the tweeters.

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Originally Posted by Dot

Emmys are for Television Wayne not for Movies so I doubt any of Mel’s movies won an Emmy. Perhaps we need a stewards enquiry into that! Conspiracy Theory wasn’t one of my favourites, Galliopli and the Lethal Weapon franchise did it for me.

It’s not what I think Mediatec do or don’t do or would or wouldn’t do Wayne, just an alternative to your apparent acceptance that Mediatec saying that the governing body doesn’t upload the videos that the governing body couldn’t influence what was uploaded.

And that Wayne is not saying that I believe that HRV did instruct that the video was edited or that they didn’t, that is me doing what I do, which is consider all the alternatives. That goes for the stewards reports as well. But I think we can both agree that a replay with a portion missing and a minimum four day delay in posting a stewards report is unusual.

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Thanks Dot, too many red carpets, oscar emmy oscar… Lethal Weapons yep, no Mel but Die Hards, and I thought I better get pumped, one eye on Fast and Furious, one eye on the forum tonight.

But I think we can both agree that a replay with a portion missing and a minimum four day delay in posting a stewards report is unusual. Agreed, not the norm.

Die Hard best Christmas movie ever!

But Kev has a point. The missing footage has been brought to the attention of Mediatec some nights ago, so why not fix it?

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Originally Posted by arlington

I'll hypothesise, why not I'm sure the thread will go on - the query he knew of was via twitter. He tweeted fairly quickly to the question on the night. From memory his reply/tweet was the last in that thread which might suggest the query was answered and accepted by the tweeters.

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I once had an email contact for Mediatec (early days before they were acquired by NEP) as they used to prefer personal contact to allow them to fix things rather than publicity. It was pre my computer-trouble so sadly I no longer have the address. An old thread has also produced results in the past so we will see how that goes

Hopefully Kev will get a reply.

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Originally Posted by Dot

Die Hard best Christmas movie ever!

But Kev has a point. The missing footage has been brought to the attention of Mediatec some nights ago, so why not fix it?

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http://www.harnessracingforum.com/im...ons/icon14.png But is it a Christmas movie Dot? :eek: I thought you were going to say Love Actually :)

Your not gender stereotyping are you Wayne? Never watched a romcom in my life. Of course Die Hard is a Christmas movie

Not at all Dot, I've stepped over to the darker side before Xmas :o
The Wang stewards report is now up.

Interesting how specific they were about how far off the gate he was, I am not sure I have seen that before (but I don't really read that many Stewards Reports)

Stewards report........interesting as always

Well now that we’ve had sometime to digest what we can see, and the stewards report, what do we think of the penalties imposed on Mr Tyndall? Not enough for mine.

Amazing that the Crocodile won after playing dodgem cars (good effort by the horse). I reckon the stewards could have upheld the protest, the push in made a huge difference to Lights and Music. That plus 11 weeks might still have been insufficient

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Originally Posted by Messenger

Interesting how specific they were about how far off the gate he was, I am not sure I have seen that before (but I don't really read that many Stewards Reports)

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You're not happy with a more explanative report Kev? Perhaps because it was a Cup meeting where there is often more interest with the report more detailed? There are other examples in this meeting report e.g. forced to race well inside marker pegs and another for approximately 200m.

Perhaps it was due to the footnote on all reports - This report and the Stewards Comments for this meeting may be amended at the sole discretion of the Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) Stewards as races are reviewed as per the ‘HRV Stewards Internal Review Process’. The stewards were alerted to the missing replay footage via twitter @HRVinformer. The stewards felt the report on the start required more detail?

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Originally Posted by Dot

Well now that we’ve had sometime to digest what we can see, and the stewards report, what do we think of the penalties imposed on Mr Tyndall? Not enough for mine.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Messenger

Amazing that the Crocodile won after playing dodgem cars (good effort by the horse). I reckon the stewards could have upheld the protest, the push in made a huge difference to Lights and Music. That plus 11 weeks might still have been insufficient

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Thoughts on the Cup as well, thoughts on relegation?