Benefits/downsides - to geld or not to geld

I am interested in people's thoughts with regard to gelding young horses. We all understand some of the reasons for gelding can relate to difficult or colty young horses, making them easier to handle in a racing stable environment. Also where to keep them, can't have them in with fillies etc.

I am more interested in people's thoughts on what benefits there are in keeping their knackers in? Physiological growth and development?

Is there any trending towards horses that can be kept as colts being better racehorses than those that are gelded early?

Not sure if there are any stats around to say more geldings win group races than do colts and horses. Obviously there are more geldings getting around so that may skew the figures anyway.

I have never posted here before but I have read long enough to know there are many knowledgable horse folk here that might have an opinion on this?

For example, if you have a colt who has a beautiful temperament nice and calm and controllable is there any benefit to keeping his nuts in for his racing career? Obviously he can realise he is a boy at some point, and I'm sure a lot depends on how much ability he has as to how much slack you cut him.

But if you have one that can run then do people think it is worth keeping him intact or will he turn out just as good if he is kept intact or gelded?

Forgetting the stallion aspect as that is usually pie in the sky I am only wondering about the physical benefits or downsides to gelding young colts and if there are, then when is the best time to do it?

Do you geld as an early yearling? Do you wait until you know if they have a motor or not?

Opinions?

I think there has to be a good, solid reason to geld them.
If they're well behaved, not getting too heavy and they're easy keepers then I can't see the point in gelding them for the sake of doing so.
On the other hand, if they're bully bastards and pains in the arse around the stables or if they're dangerous or if looking like they'll be a bit thick set and heavy over their front end then that's another story.
We gelded one of ours a few years back now simply because he was looking like getting so heavy around the neck/shoulders area but he already had front feet problems so it was a bit of a preventative measure because otherwise he was a real gentleman.
Also, some colts simply get such a big swinging set on them that they'll pinch themselves in the score up or otherwise during the early stages of a race and often go off-stride as a result. People will geld them thinking that's some sort of a temperament thing when it's just a pain thing. They're smashing their own Jatz Crackers. Either way they more often than not have to come out anyway.

What about the horse's physical development as a gelding if they are gelded young do you think it could in any way negatively affect their physical development and then their racing career?

Lets say you had some god-made machine that could let you see parallel universes and you took a yearling and in one universe gelded him and in the other you let him stay a colt, which horse would win a 2yo and 3yo race against each other?

Quote:

Originally Posted by little fish

What about the horse's physical development as a gelding if they are gelded young do you think it could in any way negatively affect their physical development and then their racing career?

Lets say you had some god-made machine that could let you see parallel universes and you took a yearling and in one universe gelded him and in the other you let him stay a colt, which horse would win a 2yo and 3yo race against each other?

[VVV] No, I don't think it does Barry.
Personally, head to head as far as their frame/size wise goes.... I don't think that it makes any difference at all.
My experience is that they'll ultimately grow out to become whatever size their genetics & environment dictate perhaps save them having that thicker neck/crest that many entires get as they age.
One thing I do know for certain, old, retired geldings don't tend to run to fat like a lot of retired entires do. That's a direct result of different Testosterone levels.
The old heads will tell you to maybe geld them a bit later in order to allow the muscle bulk they grow as colts to build up a bit, but for mine that's non-scientific waffle...because the fact is once their Jatz Crackers are taken away, and so their Testosterone levels drop, so ultimately does that muscle bulk begin to drop away.
The only way you can retain hat colt/entire like muscle bulk is to give them shots of Testosterone but you have to give it at levels which are not allowed & if you have to do that it kind of defeats the purpose of gelding them anyway. They may as well have been left entires.
As for their racing careers...here in the Sthn Hemisphere there's a fair body of evidence to suggest they make better racehorses that stick around longer but I really don't know if that's just a function of numbers (as in most colts get gelded as a matter of course so there are simply more of them) or if it is anything more involved.

Hi Barry . Jamie is right on the mark with the physical problems associated with racing colts . The extra weight is a major problem . Testosterone has a number of functions and one of them is to slow the growth plates in the end of our bones . Once gelded , horses go through a growth spurt because of this . They will , however . end up at exactly the same height . The colt may take years longer to get there . Their mental situation is a huge problem with colts being near impossible to keep interested in giving their all . It takes a very special colt that will race consistantly past 3YO . Shane Dye said one thing that stayed in my mind and that was "when a horse reaches 3YO you have to decide whether you want a stallion or a racehorse . So true . Stallions throw the towel in so easilly , just because they can .

Really dont think it matters either way...
we've had them done @ 12 months and others 3 yrs, just depends when they start getting bully and hard to handle, plus where to keep them.
have a yearling at the moment that was getting real bully in the paddock, and was going to be gelded as soon as it cooled down, sent him to the breakers,
been there 4 weeks and is a different horse, done everything perfectly and behaving like a gentleman and ready to come home again. Will see how he goes once home again, but for now he can keep them a bit longer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaB25

Really dont think it matters either way...
we've had them done @ 12 months and others 3 yrs, just depends when they start getting bully and hard to handle, plus where to keep them.
have a yearling at the moment that was getting real bully in the paddock, and was going to be gelded as soon as it cooled down, sent him to the breakers,
been there 4 weeks and is a different horse, done everything perfectly and behaving like a gentleman and ready to come home again. Will see how he goes once home again, but for now he can keep them a bit longer.

Just my $0.02, it would be desirable (although it can't always be done and in some cases may not matter) to get it done earlier because now your 3yo is out of work for a period of time when he could have been racing earning cheques. Of course that's just one aspect, others for both sides of which have been discussed above.

There are many and varied reasons for gelding a colt other the obvious ones and ones mentioned above. I train on a public track where each trainer has a paddock or two in the centre of the track and obviously colts aren't allowed out there. We used to have colt yards near the track but the city council didn't renew the lease therefore if we train a colt it basically has to be boxed.
I have never had a real problem with any colts that I have trained. I have transported them with fillies to the races and never had a problem.
Mostly all my colts were gelded on the wishes of the owners. It did make training at the track easier.

The worst with keeping colt's is where to spell them. Far to many people keep colt's away from fillies and mares in an effort to stop them becoming bully fired, i have found that if you box them or in a yard next to fillies the less bully they are they soon get sick of squealing . Also what are you going to do with them after racing ? Their is only 1 answer unless they are an exceptional racehorse and even then you will only get a few mares to them most of the time. My opinion is that the only good colt is a gelding it is probably the only way that the horse may have after racing to prolong his life and be rehomed for a saddle horse or for the cart.

In my opinion there is no rule, it is simply a case of every horse is different.

Generally most horse grow a little taller after being gelded but this has no bearing on performance as far as I'm concerned.

It seem's to me that the normal thing to do is get your horse gelded after the yearling sale or after he has been broken in, this is more than likely because it's what your father has always done in the past.
The mind set of trainers in Australia toward's racing colt's is very different to the other main racing countries in the world and the main reason being? Could just be tradition.

Maybe the better question is what are the benefits in keeping a yearling intact?