Someone's been reading the rule book?

STEWARDS REPORT MENANGLE JUNE 30th, 2012

RACE 3 – MARRIED TO THE MOB PACE – 1609 METRES

In the first score up MATAI ZINGA NZ galloped and driver L McCarthy raised his hand signalling to the starter that he had a gear problem before a false start was declared. At a subsequent inquiry it was established that the offside hopple shortener pin had released prematurely during the score up and as per HRNSW starting policy this did not constitute a false start. Therefore the driver L McCarthy was fined the sum of $200 under Rule 162(1)(d) for delaying the start.

[VVV] That's all well and good and I don't disgaree however I don't know how many times in the past that I've read Stewards Reports where a false start has occurred because a shortener had released prematurely, the explanation was then noted and no action was taken. 'Hollywood' Greg Hartley's newest Rule Of The Week perhaps? :rolleyes:

Watch out next week, colour coded hopple hangers and head checks will be required. :p

[QUOTE=Triple V;21685] STEWARDS REPORT MENANGLE JUNE 30th, 20212

Dont lose too much sleep Jaimie. We'll all be long gone when this race is run and enquiry held...!!!!!!!!

On a serious note I am surprised the stance on this in Oz. Here it certainly constitutes grounds for a false start as a safety issue. A horse is more likely than not to break or at the very least pace roughly at dispatch with uneven hopple lengths resulting from a jammed or early activated shortener. Is it not an issue at menangle only as there is no second line or something??

VVV, at least something did happen. One old timer in the Riverina who is still driving (sometimes) has in the past put his hand up but then stayed in the bloody cart and didn't fix any gear at all!!! Seen him do it a couple times now.

Tony

This policy has been in now for a while about 4 years, memory tells me it was started in Queensland and proved successful so it was then adopted in NSW.

The consensus of opinion being that too many false starts were being being caused by such issues, I would like a $ for every false start where the horse galloped and then the pin released.

Overall most will say it has helped starting in both states.

As for VVV comment that is rubbish, the rule is not broken by many and to be honest $200 is a light penalty, Luke knows the rule, by galloping he is out of play by breaking the rule he gets a second go, it is not fair on the other runners or anyone who has had a bet.

It is a form of cheating gallop tell a fib get a second crack it is not fair. Not sure if you realise it but the rule book is for Luke McCarthy as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevoiceofreason

Tony

This policy has been in now for a while about 4 years, memory tells me it was started in Queensland and proved successful so it was then adopted in NSW.

The consensus of opinion being that too many false starts were being being caused by such issues, I would like a $ for every false start where the horse galloped and then the pin released.

Overall most will say it has helped starting in both states.

As for VVV comment that is rubbish, the rule is not broken by many and to be honest $200 is a light penalty, Luke knows the rule, by galloping he is out of play by breaking the rule he gets a second go, it is not fair on the other runners or anyone who has had a bet.

It is a form of cheating gallop tell a fib get a second crack it is not fair. Not sure if you realise it but the rule book is for Luke McCarthy as well.

[VVV] I'm not saying the rule is either intentionally or inadvertantly broken, rather I am stating that it has been repeatedly cited as the reason why a horse broke in the score up & caused a false start.
The difference is that in this instance it was a break at Menangle with 10 across the front and so Luke's horse did not interfer with another starter and rather than have the field go without him he put his hand up.
I'm not saying that is right, it is gamesmanship on Luke's part & if I was a driver if I had no other option available I would probably try it on too, however I've also seen plenty of other drivers have the same problem on smaller tracks and get away with it.
If instead you're on the front line on a half mile track & a pin releases prematurely, the horse breaks & takes out a trailer or trailers and a false start is declared, this pin popping too soon routine has been dealt with very differently. I'll go back & find instances thereof in the Stewards reports if you like VOR. That is the point I am trying to make. It's a rule that, like so many others, is dealt with 'inconsistently' at times.
In both instances (Menangle vs other tracks with a 2nd line) the actual cause of the false start is the same, a pin pops early, but the explanations are dealt with very differently.
On a half when a trailer gets interfered with it's largely just been Take 2 and later it's explanation noted, at Menangle it's the driver put his hand in their air and caused a false start, fined $200. Same cause, in one instance it's deemed Ok because other starters were hampered, in another it's not and someone gets fined.

[QUOTE=teecee;21687]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

STEWARDS REPORT MENANGLE JUNE 30th, 20212

Dont lose too much sleep Jaimie. We'll all be long gone when this race is run and enquiry held...!!!!!!!!

[VVV] George Burns, Chief Steward. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

[VVV] I'm not saying the rule is either intentionally or inadvertantly broken, rather I am stating that it has been repeatedly cited as the reason why a horse broke in the score up & caused a false start.
The difference is that in this instance it was a break at Menangle with 10 across the front and so Luke's horse did not interfer with another starter and rather than have the field go without him he put his hand up.
I'm not saying that is right, it is gamesmanship on Luke's part & if I was a driver if I had no other option available I would probably try it on too, however I've also seen plenty of other drivers have the same problem on smaller tracks and get away with it.
If instead you're on the front line on a half mile track & a pin releases prematurely, the horse breaks & takes out a trailer or trailers and a false start is declared, this pin popping too soon routine has been dealt with very differently. I'll go back & find instances thereof in the Stewards reports if you like VOR. That is the point I am trying to make. It's a rule that, like so many others, is dealt with 'inconsistently' at times.
In both instances (Menangle vs other tracks with a 2nd line) the actual cause of the false start is the same, a pin pops early, but the explanations are dealt with very differently.
On a half when a trailer gets interfered with it's largely just been Take 2 and later it's explanation noted, at Menangle it's the driver put his hand in their air and caused a false start, fined $200. Same cause, in one instance it's deemed Ok because other starters were hampered, in another it's not and someone gets fined.

VVV you are on the wrong boat here perhaps even at the wrong jetty.

The reason a false start is called on the two line track is because of the interference nothing more nothing less. If a horse drawn in six pops a pin and gallops no false start.

Part of the reason declaring false starts for a pin or deafeners releasing, which were another common cause a few years back, was changed is because neither is caught under the false start rule,

I have set it out below but clearly interference is dealt with as is gear breakage but no where can I see gear malfunction as a reason the starter can declare a false start.

You will find no doubt 100's of examples where false starts were called in the past for this exact happening, that is essentially why the policy was changed because simply there were too many false starts.

141. (1) In mobile start races the starter may declare a false start if at or before the starting point a horse causes interference to another runner, falls, breaks gear or scores up in front of the gate.

I think $200 is too light, it is cheating to get a second go that simply under the rules you are not entitled too.

The policy may well have changed quite some time ago VOR, I don't doubt that it has, however as far as I can determine that's the 1st time it has actually been highlighted as having done so...hence the crack about Hollywood Greg Hartely's 'Rule Of The Week'.
From trackside I saw another driver do EXACTLY the same thing quite a few months back now & there was a re-call and subsequently nothing happened save a notation in the Stewards report of the reason for the false start..which officially was a tongue tie coming loose...but in reality I strongly suspect was because he was on the odds on fav. & at the 1st attempt it had broken off the back line, interfered with no other starter & was set to be left motherless. Stewarding to the Tote Board there? Never! Perish the thought.
Call me a cynic however the moral of this story appears to be that if a pin or some other such thing causes a Driver an issue in the score up at Menangle...or otherwise on a half miler when drawn clear of trailers, either out wide or otherwise off the back line...then for God's sake, don't ever put your hand up...instead just hang up or down the track & endeavour to cause a little interference to one or more of the horses drawn alongside you & get a false start declared that way. You will get another shot at the prize...and you don't get fined. In effect, you would benefit from causing interference under such circumstances. Wouldn't it be better just to raise your hand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

The policy may well have changed quite some time ago VOR, I don't doubt that it has, however as far as I can determine that's the 1st time it has actually been highlighted as having done so...hence the crack about Hollywood Greg Hartely's 'Rule Of The Week'.
From trackside I saw another driver do EXACTLY the same thing quite a few months back now & there was a re-call and subsequently nothing happened save a notation in the Stewards report of the reason for the false start..which officially was a tongue tie coming loose...but in reality I strongly suspect was because he was on the odds on fav. & at the 1st attempt it had broken off the back line, interfered with no other starter & was set to be left motherless. Stewarding to the Tote Board there? Never! Perish the thought.
Call me a cynic however the moral of this story appears to be that if a pin or some other such thing causes a Driver an issue in the score up at Menangle...or otherwise on a half miler when drawn clear of trailers, either out wide or otherwise off the back line...then for God's sake, don't ever put your hand up...instead just hang up or down the track & endeavour to cause a little interference to one or more of the horses drawn alongside you & get a false start declared that way. You will get another shot at the prize...and you don't get fined. In effect, you would benefit from causing interference under such circumstances. Wouldn't it be better just to raise your hand?

Short answer in case one if it is since the policy change which is around two years ago then the stewards got it wrong and the driver should have penalised no doubt.

Second issue turn a galloping horse toward other runners which is pretty easy to see on a video to cause interference, hopefully the stewards will do there most to charge a driver with a deliberate act and if able to be proved he will wish he put his hand up and copped the $200 fine. I can assure you it has been tried many times with horses with no pins anyway ... unfortunately.

For an experienced horseman it's not very hard to do...while conversely it's really hard to prove. It's much the same as the reason why a horse that is on the lead and starts to drift late in the stretch almost never drifts out of the path of a horse coming from the rear...and instead drifts into its path...as in hanging to the inside if the closing horse is coming up the pylons and hanging up the track if the closer is coming at it to the outside.
I'm a complete bozo in the bike, I sit like a 125kg bag of Chaff, and even with my modest abilities I can make one drift about if I wanted to & you'd be pretty hard pressed to see it.
http://www.grannyreilly.com.au/Grann...haff%20Bag.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

For an experienced horseman it's not very hard to do...while conversely it's really hard to prove. It's much the same as the reason why a horse that is on the lead and starts to drift late in the stretch almost never drifts out of the path of a horse coming from the rear...and instead drifts into its path...as in hanging to the inside if the closing horse is coming up the pylons and hanging up the track if the closer is coming at it to the outside.
I'm a complete bozo in the bike, I sit like a 125kg bag of Chaff, and even with my modest abilities I can make one drift about if I wanted to & you'd be pretty hard pressed to see it.
http://www.grannyreilly.com.au/Grann...haff%20Bag.jpg

The best way to stop them drifting is uphold a few protests just ask Robbie Morris.

True, but that brings me back to Stewarding by the Tote Board.
Didn't Robbie drift INTO the path of the fav?
If instead Fitzy's horse was poking through at 40/1 and Robbie's was the fav...what price it was upheld?
I reckon 100/1 & blowing like fat man running up stairs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

True, but that brings me back to Stewarding by the Tote Board.
Didn't Robbie drift INTO the path of the fav?
If instead Fitzy's horse was poking through at 40/1 and Robbie's was the fav...what price it was upheld?
I reckon 100/1 & blowing like fat man running up stairs.

What Like this race you mean
Final Results - Race 3 BATHURST 29 March 2008
PRICKLY PEAR BATHURST GOLD BRACELET FINAL
Race code: BHC29030803 Stakes: $40,000 Gait: PACERS Class: 3YO
2,130 METRES MOBILE START
Pl Horse Prize-
money Row &
Br TAB
# Trainer Driver
( C = Concession ) Mgn
(m) Starting
odds Stewards'
Comments
Expln
1 VISTA BELLA $20,000 Fr6 6 C A Turnbull C A Alford $ 20.50 INC PL1U M 6 BL 6
BAY FILLY 3 by BADLANDS HANOVER USA out of OUT OF SIGHT USA
Owner(s): C Bamford, K L Bamford
Breeder(s): C Bamford, K L Bamford
2 WEONA BADGIRL $8,800 Fr2 2 P R J Fitzpatrick B P Fitzpatrick SHFHD $ 2.20 fav SGS SOUP L1OP D/F$200 SG M 4 BL 4 SWAB
3 CHERI CULLEN $4,800 Sr1 8 B J Hewitt B J Hewitt 3.70 $ 16.90 M 3 BL 3
4 LEADING LADY LOMBO $3,200 Fr5 5 P R J Fitzpatrick C J Fitzpatrick 22.60 $ 70.50 M 9 BL 10
5 KEPT FOR PLEASURE $1,200 Sr3 10 S M Hunter M P Jackson 24.00 $ 3.40 M 7 BL 8
6 HEART OF AURORA $400 Sr2 9 A S Turnbull A S Turnbull 25.50 $ 51.60 M 5 BL 5
7 BURNING STATURE $400 Fr1 1 M T Hewitt M T Hewitt 31.50 $ 8.90 SGS M 1 BL 1
8 ARMIDA $400 Fr7 7 G M Seymour A M Siejka 37.10 $ 44.70 RRSU OPS 3W M 8 BL W1
9 ALL IN BABY $400 Fr4 4 S M Hunter A R Ruggari 38.10 $ 110.50 SGS TIRED M 2 BL 2
10 LADY LEXUS $400 Fr3 3 P R J Fitzpatrick G J Fitzpatrick 56.00 $ 6.50 HIAS CB M 11 BL 7 (L)
Scratchings

2008?
Geeze VOR, you know...Bruce Springsteen wrote a song about that sort of thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQpW9XRiyM :p

Just wanted to find a protest 2 V 1 in a black type event in NSW that was upheld ..... I can not be held responsible for history.

Ah yes, this is true. May I suggest that you print out the page & press it in a heavy book alongside any four leaf clovers you may happen to find...for that sort of thing is is just as rare a commodity.