Bathurst Gold Tiara Final- exactly what do you have to do....

...to be set back/taken down here in NSW?
The Driver of the filly that finished 2nd gets charged with careless, reckless, intimidatory driving & scores 4 weeks & a $600 fine...but he gets to keep the 2nd place & the $ that goes with it...whilst the horse he took out, the $2.10 fav, finishes close on 50m last & connections get sweet FA for their efforts despite nonetheless being on the side of the Angels. WTF????
Is it going to take someone or some horse or both to be put on the deck & severely injured or God forbid, killed before someone in Regulatory Officialdom Land grows a set of Cajones & starts setting back/taking down these & other such drives? A 4 week holiday & a $600 fine is no deterrent . :mad:

Hi Jaimie,

I support the introduction of the relegation rule.
When Greg Hayes was ridiculed on "In The Gig", I considered it disgraceful ignorance.
The people that hate the concept of relegation are concerned for the punters.
I however believe that the same punters will have ups and downs and accept the rule as common sense - every race has a winner.

Too little discussion was allowed to actually assess the potential reduction in interference.

I believe that the amount of interference will reduce significantly with a relegation rule.

As an owner, I have had horses careers seriously impacted by idiots that get only 4 weeks.
Jeroen

Whilst I agree this incident looked very crook, and like many others I have had horses ruined by "imbeciles with a licence", relegation, IMO should be an option available to stewards when foul driving has been found proven.
In an incident where for example a horse has contributed significantly to the outcome, or where mitigating circumstances have hampered the driver, I reckon relegation may not be the most appropriate action.

I have only had the chance to view this incident on the internet replay and the lack of a head on etc make it hard for me to form a firm opinion whether the horse contributed or not and the stewards report is not up yet either, however the charge itself lends one to think the horse may not have had anything to do with it, but as I stated it looked very crook and getting pole axed in a race like that when you are clearly going to play a part in the finish is a bitter to pill to swallow for anyone, I hope the filly has taken no harm from it, for if she has that would compound the frustration manifold.

Dan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple V

...to be set back/taken down here in NSW?
The Driver of the filly that finished 2nd gets charged with careless, reckless, intimidatory driving & scores 4 weeks & a $600 fine...but he gets to keep the 2nd place & the $ that goes with it...whilst the horse he took out, the $2.10 fav, finishes close on 50m last & connections get sweet FA for their efforts despite nonetheless being on the side of the Angels. WTF????
Is it going to take someone or some horse or both to be put on the deck & severely injured or God forbid, killed before someone in Regulatory Officialdom Land grows a set of Cajones & starts setting back/taking down these & other such drives? A 4 week holiday & a $600 fine is no deterrent . :mad:

Check out the C&G Gold Crown final too. Going into first turn. That driver got 6 weeks, no fine and again they keep the 2nd prize money. The horse he took out didn't complete the course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toohard

Check out the C&G Gold Crown final too. Going into first turn. That driver got 6 weeks, no fine and again they keep the 2nd prize money. The horse he took out didn't complete the course.

I wonder how things could change if by somehow with a blatant offence like in these 2 instances particularly where a driver has copped a harsh penalty that the owners of the poleaxed horse could sue the offending driver? Could open a big can of worms of course...could also change some behaviour?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maorisidol

I wonder how things could change if by somehow with a blatant offence like in these 2 instances particularly where a driver has copped a harsh penalty that the owners of the poleaxed horse could sue the offending driver? Could open a big can of worms of course...could also change some behaviour?

Is it a harsh penalty though? 6 weeks. In last 6 weeks that driver had 15-16 drives. Works out to about $1,100 driving fees? 2nd prize in $100k final $20k ? Drivers percentage 5% = $1,000. So "fined" $100.

Horse knocked out of race (based on previous runs) would have gone forward from where it was had it not got skittled. Would have got the front imo. Winner of race would not have got the front as easy as did, if at all.
Not saying horse skittled wins, but wins or runs 2nd based on previous form (fastest qualifier) and the way race panned out imo.

No stewards report yet but in comments says skittled horse SDVETS so assume sustained an injury too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toohard

Is it a harsh penalty though? 6 weeks. In last 6 weeks that driver had 15-16 drives. Works out to about $1,100 driving fees? 2nd prize in $100k final $20k ? Drivers percentage 5% = $1,000. So "fined" $100.

Horse knocked out of race (based on previous runs) would have gone forward from where it was had it not got skittled. Would have got the front imo. Winner of race would not have got the front as easy as did, if at all.
Not saying horse skittled wins, but wins or runs 2nd based on previous form (fastest qualifier) and the way race panned out imo.

No stewards report yet but in comments says skittled horse SDVETS so assume sustained an injury too.

Yeah not harsh at all Paul really. What i guess i was meaning without writing a book on it, was that he was found guilty by stewards, confirming a bad deed was done, hence that can therefore be a green light to potential compensation...and if a horse is injured all vets bills also to be paid by driver!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maorisidol

Yeah not harsh at all Paul really. What i guess i was meaning without writing a book on it, was that he was found guilty by stewards, confirming a bad deed was done, hence that can therefore be a green light to potential compensation...and if a horse is injured all vets bills also to be paid by driver!

I ain't no driver knocker. The opposite actually.

But like you say found guilty by stewards and the wash up just all seems a bit unfair. That's racing I guess.

What do you mean "That's racing I guess" These examples are exactly what it is NOT, it is instead nothing more than a win at all cost attitude which equates directly to foul driving.
The perpetrators of this type of driving do it purely because they can. They know full well that their indiscretions will attract a punishment the equivalent of a slap over the knuckles with a feather duster.
We wonder why the punting public have wiped their hands of the sport, well these two incidents are just another nail in what seems to be an ever increasing number of coffins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toohard

Check out the C&G Gold Crown final too. Going into first turn. That driver got 6 weeks, no fine and again they keep the 2nd prize money. The horse he took out didn't complete the course.

[VVV] Thanks Paul. Missed all of the races Saturday night and have only just watched the replay of the Crown Final. That's a bloody disgrace as well. WTF are the Stewards going to do about this annual dodgem cars routine? It's appalling. Fines and suspensions don't do a God damned thing. Set them back. Relegate them. Take them down. That stings. The rest is just bullshit. Graham's horse gets taken out of play & once again old mate responsible gets to keep the 2nd $. That's crap too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethal

What do you mean "That's racing I guess" These examples are exactly what it is NOT, it is instead nothing more than a win at all cost attitude which equates directly to foul driving.
The perpetrators of this type of driving do it purely because they can. They know full well that their indiscretions will attract a punishment the equivalent of a slap over the knuckles with a feather duster.
We wonder why the punting public have wiped their hands of the sport, well these two incidents are just another nail in what seems to be an ever increasing number of coffins.

Gday Lee
Was trying to be sarcastic with comment.
Agree 100% with what you say.

Paul,
It is just that sort of statement seems to be indicative of the malaise that has spread through the Industry whereby that sort of conduct comes to be taken as a given.
You (not you personally, the collective you) need to be on the receiving end of this malpractice to fully understand that there may be outside influences other than driver error that has influenced these incidents, especially at big money races on out of town tracks.

Just watched the last race at Globe Derby. At the start, Spy Or Die clearly has legs taken away in a battle for the lead by the driver of Im Agent Eighty Six who is first past the post. One would assume this interference would not have occurred with relegation. Connections of Spy Or Die would surely become disillusioned with the lack of fairness of our racing rules.

We must be one of the only "racing sports"(gallops as well) where you can badly break the rules and keep your prize,and before i hear someone say that owners shouldn't be punished,i am an owner,breeder and buyer and i can tell you that if my driver knocked someone down and the stewards took the prize off me whatever placing that may be i would EXPECT to be relegated behind the horse i interfered with.This MUST change!

I have long been an advocate of relegation and whilst the two incidents at Bathurst may be cases where it could have been used, there are some points that may be being missed in the rush to condemn.

In the Tiara Final, David Kennedy was charged with careless driving, not as it appeared in the initial results report. That is just a follow on from the fact that careless, reckless and intimadatory are all listed in the one rule, Rule 168.

Disclaimer: My daughter works for the stable of Haka Shannon. In the Crown Final, Aristaeus actually choked down whilst being restrained after being checked. It was a huge concern for many of the finalists in the Crown about where Aristaeus drew in the final as it appeared in his heat that he was virtually unrestrainable. My initial thoughts about the incident were that both horses were contesting the same position and that Aristaeus continued to progress forward and out creating the contact. I have been told that Peter Bullock argued the same in the hearing, but when the Stewards were obviously of a different opinion, he gave it up as a forlorn argument and went with their decision.

But all that is irrelevant, both cases deserve relegation! Just that neither guilty party deserves further condemnation as it wasn't foul driving on the part of David Kennedy, just carelessness whilst pulling the earplugs and Aristaeus hit the deck because of its own behaviour, not because of being checked.

Hi Phil, What you have said about Aristaeus isn't quite right,Aristaeus or (Sammy as we call him) was in the 2 wide line already and following through nicely and if you see the video and stewards video quite controllable,the fact that Mr Bullock's cart got under his legs which WAS proven, caused him to fire up and choke down......but even after having said all that the stewards found Mr Bullock GUILTY so i go back to my original statement of,"how can you keep the prize whatever it may be if you have been found guity of doing something outside the rules".
Cheers
Ross

The only problem with introducing relegation here is the top heavy racing administrations of thoroughbred and harness authorities would have to introduce changes to racing rules that may require them to actually do something.

Under the current rules punters have NO protection from seeing their horse being taken out of contention by an offender that fills a place. A relegation clause WILL stop this type of activity occurring. You should not be able to profit from what can be only be termed as cheating.

A jockey/driver should be prosecuted heavily for foul play, not slapped over the wrist. Excessive disqualification periods and crushing fines should apply.

Owners of potential Black Type champions with stud careers beckoning will be better protected as their investments compete on the track without the fear of a crook/cowboy intentionally physically harming their horse.

Under our current rules IMO, the only person being protected here is the OFFENDER himself as he almost gets off scot free after destroying a race.

I am 100% in agreement that it is high time the relegation rule was introduced. If the authorities think they are protecting the punters interest, they are just plain wrong. If a horse were to be relegated, it would almost be the same as the status quo, in that if the offender caused interference to another runner it could expect to be lowered further down in the placings. Punters are already inured to this fact.