Stewards Responsibilities

A theoretical.
A top class in-form horse racing over a sprint distance from the inside of the Second Line in a hot 8 horse field....Horse A...Third Favourite..
The Pole Marker(Horse B...Hot Favourite)) flies out and after 200 metres there is speed duel that sees the Pole Marker and another horse(Horse C...outsider) outside it slip away from Horse A leaving a gap of 15 metres between the duellers and the horse in question.
After about 300 metres, Horse D..double figures slips around Horse A and heads to the markers to sit behind Horse B.
Horse A is now relegated to third on the markers but now there are no horses outside him in the running line and in fact the next horse in the running line is 6-10 metres back..
Any chance of using the Sprint Lane are greatly diminished and its only a short race.
Should Horse A pull out into the Running Line and get in behind the now relaxed Horse C?
And more to the point should the Driver of Horse A be carpeted for failure to show initiative?

200 Metres after the Start:
C... DXX
B....AXXX

300 metres after the Start:
C..... XX
BD.AXXX

Quote:

Originally Posted by waggamick

A theoretical.
A top class in-form horse racing over a sprint distance from the inside of the Second Line in a hot 8 horse field....Horse A...Third Favourite..
The Pole Marker(Horse B...Hot Favourite)) flies out and after 200 metres there is speed duel that sees the Pole Marker and another horse(Horse C...outsider) outside it slip away from Horse A leaving a gap of 15 metres between the duellers and the horse in question.
After about 300 metres, Horse D..double figures slips around Horse A and heads to the markers to sit behind Horse B.
Horse A is now relegated to third on the markers but now there are no horses outside him in the running line and in fact the next horse in the running line is 6-10 metres back..
Any chance of using the Sprint Lane are greatly diminished and its only a short race.
Should Horse A pull out into the Running Line and get in behind the now relaxed Horse C?
And more to the point should the Driver of Horse A be carpeted for failure to show
initiative?

200 Metres after the Start:
C... DXX
B....AXXX

300 metres after the Start:
C..... XX
BD.AXXX

Id say 1x1 for sure after that start leader might get tired

Quote:

Originally Posted by waggamick

A theoretical.
A top class in-form horse racing over a sprint distance from the inside of the Second Line in a hot 8 horse field....Horse A...Third Favourite..
The Pole Marker(Horse B...Hot Favourite)) flies out and after 200 metres there is speed duel that sees the Pole Marker and another horse(Horse C...outsider) outside it slip away from Horse A leaving a gap of 15 metres between the duellers and the horse in question.
After about 300 metres, Horse D..double figures slips around Horse A and heads to the markers to sit behind Horse B.
Horse A is now relegated to third on the markers but now there are no horses outside him in the running line and in fact the next horse in the running line is 6-10 metres back..
Any chance of using the Sprint Lane are greatly diminished and its only a short race.
Should Horse A pull out into the Running Line and get in behind the now relaxed Horse C?
And more to the point should the Driver of Horse A be carpeted for failure to show initiative?

200 Metres after the Start:
C... DXX
B....AXXX

300 metres after the Start:
C..... XX
BD.AXXX

Reckon Horse A not the best in the field and is third favourite on basis it was expected to get an easy run behind favourite and could outsprint it?
If Horse A made to do bit more work kicking up to hold spot behind leader in hot lead time or it goes out in the running line could bring it back to pack and only be 4th, 5th, 6th etc favourite? So maybe staying back and in better option.
Much easier to say if given the real race.

Horse A ie Hectorjayjay should have won easily. Driver had opportunity to come the fence at about the 400m as well but chose to stay in...

The size of the field is somewhat relevant and whether the fave and leader is classes above them
The only reason the driver of A might have a good case to argue before the stewards as to why he stayed on the fence is if A was an out and out sit sprinter (and he had endeavoured to get the 3 posn behind the leader but D was too quick to the punch)
The reason I make allowances for a sit sprinter is that the obvious move of going to the 4 posn (1x1) is probably going to force him to make an early move as C in front of him is possibly going to tire early and he is going to have to worry about a 3w train pocketing him. Many are still probably going to take the chance of C hanging in there until the home turn

If he is a tough enough horse you would think he pretty much has to come out if he could not hold the leader's back. (Chris Alford may have even gone and had a crack at the lead)

Mick you would love this Jason Lee drive on Narra Operative at Ballarat where there is no sprint lane - he did get suspended for it
http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...ic#BAC02091401

Edit - I had not seen the other replies when I posted this. If first up that could be another factor

Bingo!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymo

Horse A ie Hectorjayjay should have won easily. Driver had opportunity to come the fence at about the 400m as well but chose to stay in...

Bingo!
I see the driver was admonished by Stewards for mishaps in the home straight.
Surely they have to step in every now and then and give drivers a rev for lack of initiative.

Was thinking along similar lines as mightymo, i.e. the horse in question. Only watched an 'example' on Sat night without replay and I often give drivers the benefit of the doubt...it's not always like it seems from the grandstand/tv. The horse has terrific speed, sprint home. What were the early sectionals? and driver L is always likely to burn...would you get into a contest with L using up oxygen trying to keep them out knowing you have a horse that finishes brilliantly. And the question of coming off the rail is always a timing thing, if I went to 1x1 would I be flushed out 1000/800 from home as you said Kev. In this case how quick did they run the third quarter and even staying in with the option of coming out 400 from home, how much ground do I lose if I go wide, especially at Melton around the final bend. I say yes, driver is questioned but depending on answers, not guilty. Are drivers, who are close to the training, allowed to have faith in their horse?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arlington

Was thinking along similar lines as mightymo, i.e. the horse in question. Only watched an 'example' on Sat night without replay and I often give drivers the benefit of the doubt...it's not always like it seems from the grandstand/tv. The horse has terrific speed, sprint home. What were the early sectionals? and driver L is always likely to burn...would you get into a contest with L using up oxygen trying to keep them out knowing you have a horse that finishes brilliantly. And the question of coming off the rail is always a timing thing, if I went to 1x1 would I be flushed out 1000/800 from home as you said Kev. In this case how quick did they run the third quarter and even staying in with the option of coming out 400 from home, how much ground do I lose if I go wide, especially at Melton around the final bend. I say yes, driver is questioned but depending on answers, not guilty. Are drivers, who are close to the training, allowed to have faith in their horse?

I can see that the capabilities of the animal are best known to the driver and that the perspective from watching it on TV can distort things but there was only 1400 metres to go in a 1720 metre race and you would think that weighing up the disadvantages of being locked and blocked three back the pegs against the extra few metres run and getting a cart in the running line would've seen a move to the one out one back possie.
The majority of the punting revenue comes from punters watching the races on TV and its these situations that my punt mad mates raise with me every time I try to defend harness racing.
I'm not sure that gallops stewards would be so understanding.

Fair enough Mick. totally agree the punting dollar is the life blood. The other what if scenario...goes 1x1 misses by a nose, why didn't they stay for the sprint lane? Perception, did the driver, at least, get questioned? But how many times are jockeys plain lucky a gap has opened in an expansive straight?

i was on the horse in question to place and watching live I had zero qualms whatsoever with the tactics adopted. After going back and watching the replay just now, my initial thoughts were confirmed. There's no way she comes off the pegs early when there is a high probability either Messini or Young Modern come round u, both of whom stick on extremely well. As for the chance at the 400, I didn't see that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brent_L

i was on the horse in question to place and watching live I had zero qualms whatsoever with the tactics adopted. After going back and watching the replay just now, my initial thoughts were confirmed. There's no way she comes off the pegs early when there is a high probability either Messini or Young Modern come round u, both of whom stick on extremely well. As for the chance at the 400, I didn't see that.

+1
A friend went the same way, said horse to place, would find it hard to win, included in all up places for the night....all good until Adorable. That's racing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brent_L

i was on the horse in question to place and watching live I had zero qualms whatsoever with the tactics adopted. After going back and watching the replay just now, my initial thoughts were confirmed. There's no way she comes off the pegs early when there is a high probability either Messini or Young Modern come round u, both of whom stick on extremely well. As for the chance at the 400, I didn't see that.

+2, took a peek at the replay, still no option at the 400 esp as said driver got DCSG for I assume making a little room in the straight. By the rules it's a heftier penalty on a bend.
Kev, (Chris Alford may have even gone and had a crack at the lead) Now that would have deserved questioning BIG TIME.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arlington

+2, took a peek at the replay, still no option at the 400 esp as said driver got DCSG for I assume making a little room in the straight. By the rules it's a heftier penalty on a bend.
Kev, (Chris Alford may have even gone and had a crack at the lead) Now that would have deserved questioning BIG TIME.

I didn't know what race/horse we were talking about when I posted so I plead Not Guilty to Insanity

Quote:

Originally Posted by brent_L

i was on the horse in question to place and watching live I had zero qualms whatsoever with the tactics adopted. After going back and watching the replay just now, my initial thoughts were confirmed. There's no way she comes off the pegs early when there is a high probability either Messini or Young Modern come round u, both of whom stick on extremely well. As for the chance at the 400, I didn't see that.

If you are hoping to place there is not a great deal of difference between the 4 or 5 posn in the run at Melton so far this season. (and if you are looking to bigger races we know which posn guarantees you the easier run)

4 posn: 13 wins and 54 places (includes winners as a place-getter of course)
5 posn: 4 wins and 46 places