Game gradually dying in the Hunter Valley

I know everyone on this forum is concerned primarily about what is happening in their own backyard which is fair enough.


Here in the Hunter Valley we have, for quite some time had a super trainer and driver combination in our midst which is, in my humble opinion, gradually and unwittingly killing the game in our area.


Each week there are basically 1.5 meetings in the Hunter and one stable is taking approximately 50% of the winners purses home.


When you consider that the number of trainers\stables in the area and the number of horses in those yards and the number of owners paying up for those horses and that they are now effectively sharing 50% of the spoils when they had previously contested 100% of that pie, it's not easy to see why we are struggling to fill fields.


I know some exceptionally intelligent person is going to say something like " if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" but hey EIP, it's not quite that simple!!


We are seeing horses that improve virtually overnight for this super trainer and driver combination not just occasionally, but VERY frequently and I'm not into bagging people, that's not what this post is about, I am genuinely concerned about the future of the game if this one stable dominance continues...how long does it take before so many people get sick of perceived reductions of potential purses that they decide to give the game away and go racing ferrets??


I believe HRNSW is aware the situation here is imperfect, I believe they have made attempts to correct it, I also believe that so far, they have failed..........damned if I know what the answer is, but as a trainer/driver/owner/breeder/ local harness committee man
who has been involved in this silly game we play for over 45 years....I've just about had a gutful, and please don't take this as "sour grapes"..... in my time I've seen the swings and roundabouts of this game many, many times.

I am almost exclusively a Vic follower Dan but I guess we are talking about the Tritton stable.
Looking at the trainers on the National Top 20 I see that his strike rate is about 25% but no doubt his success could be much more in the Newcastle area and much lower elsewhere - like the Cramps was in Vic (no inference intended)

In the Top 10, along with Tritton, Hall and Bond in WA are striking at 25% while Stewart in Vic is striking at 35%. You would think with two of them in WA it must not be leaving much to the others.
Vic is a much smaller state and with harness virtually only in the Western/Central half, Stewart like any other Vic trainer, tends to spread herself around.

There are a few in the bottom half of the Top 20 that are striking at 30% but they only have half as many winners as the big boys and girls for they have had far fewer starters (but seasons most would die for)
Looking at the Top 8 it is amazing how big these stables are for apart from Stewart, they have all had over 600 starters and as many as 1321 !!!

http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/r...470?d=13062015

It is interesting to note that QLD has 4 trainers in the Top 10, NSW 3, WA 2 and VIC 1
For the Top 20 we have NSW 7, VIC 5, QLD 4, WA 3, SA 1

I am not sure what we can draw from this simple analysis but it would seem to me that the spread is a little better in VIC

Edit: I just did a quick look at April, May, June at Newcastle
The Tritton stable has won 5/8, 4/8, 2/8, 4/8, 2/9, 0/7, 0/7, 2/8, 4/6, 5/7, 0/7, 2/8, 1/8
The zeros were when they had no starters

I have noticed this as well Dan - I guess every winning run comes to an end eventually but it's whether the industry can hold on in the meantime.


Perhaps one of the disadvantages of all runners starting off the front on a big circuit - at least if it was 7 off the front with 4 trailers on a half-mile track they might draw the second row!

Hi all ... The hunter valley is my home and the place I have supported my entire life .. I have a very simple question for this thread and would love a response ... I currently have 60 horses in work with 12 staff members , over 40 individual owners, obviously over the last few seasons we have won a considerable amount of races at Newcastle. I believe there are 80 odd meetings a year with an average of 8 races a meeting. 640 odd races a year.. I have won an average of 90 races a year which is only 14%. Hardly a domination .. But my question is considering I have 60 horses .. If this was 6 different trainers with 2 staff each and 8 odd owners in each stable ... Would anyone be complaining.. Can someone tell me why this is different as I don't have 1 owner most my horses are individual owners... So essentially the money is getting spread among plenty of different owners... Plenty of staff ,, plenty of participants .. So I would just like to know how would would the sport be better off if I split my horses amongst my 12 staff and 6 different trainers .. Does the hunter valley change ??

Statistics don't lie.Shane Tritton has won 27% of the races run at Newcastle this season.His statewide strike rate is 25% winners to runners.Lucky Emma Stewart lives in Victoria where her strike rate is 36%!Lift your game Shane!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shane tritton

Hi all ... The hunter valley is my home and the place I have supported my entire life .. I have a very simple question for this thread and would love a response ... I currently have 60 horses in work with 12 staff members , over 40 individual owners, obviously over the last few seasons we have won a considerable amount of races at Newcastle. I believe there are 80 odd meetings a year with an average of 8 races a meeting. 640 odd races a year.. I have won an average of 90 races a year which is only 14%. Hardly a domination .. But my question is considering I have 60 horses .. If this was 6 different trainers with 2 staff each and 8 odd owners in each stable ... Would anyone be complaining.. Can someone tell me why this is different as I don't have 1 owner most my horses are individual owners... So essentially the money is getting spread among plenty of different owners... Plenty of staff ,, plenty of participants .. So I would just like to know how would would the sport be better off if I split my horses amongst my 12 staff and 6 different trainers .. Does the hunter valley change ??

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G'day Shane,
great to see you are now a contributing member of the forum, and equally good to see you have supported the Hunter Valley your entire life, god knows what we would do without you!


Your "very simple question" seems to have a few facets to it, so if you can bear with me I'll try and address each facet in the order it appears in your post.


I think the gist of Question 1 part (a)


you have 60 horses in work and 12 staff....so winning....lets use Lasse's stats 27% of races is "hardly a domination" mate those stats tell me you are a super trainer!! don't lie mate you know that no-one else around here is getting anywhere near those figures and if I was you I'd be proud of that!!....and it IS a dominant performance! Geez don't sell yourself short here Shane!


Question 1/2 part ( b) ? ( starts with, "but my question is") if we spread 60 horse over 6 different trainers.......forgive me Shane I know I'm dumb, but I just cannot see the relevance of that question to this post, so if you could point out what I have missed I'd be grateful.


Now clearly the last line of your post is Question 3......"Does the Hunter Valley change?"....well clearly it does Shane, like everything in life we get change some is good and some not so good....the point of the post was to point out that the current situation in this area with one stable, albeit very large stable, is taking a perceived disproportionate slice of the action then that may have a negative effect on the prosperity of the game in this area.


I'd love to see some evidence that my observations and thoughts are incorrect.


Cheers,
Dan

I know you have been a member without being a poster for some time Shane as is everyone's prerogative but it good to see you post - maybe you would prefer to be posting on a different topic but being such an important figure in the Hunter Valley it is appropriate that you weigh in here

As Lasse's post points out, you are selling yourself short on what percentage of Newcastle races you win. 27% is nearly Double what you were thinking. I came up with the same figure as Lasse. Did you do the hard yards on that Lasse or did you find it somewhere? I am glad I did the hard yards because at the same time I looked at how many races Shane's horses competed in. Lasse's post gives the impression that Shane's peformance at Newcastle is similar to his statewide strike rate. (I know you did not actually say that Lasse)

I discovered that Shane's horses only competed in 227 of the 426 races run at Newcastle so far this season so while winning 115 is 27% of all races Shane's fantastic placement has resulted in winning nearly 51% of the races they have contested!

NB this is slightly different from strike rate but possibly more meaningful. Multi horses in a race in some ways makes strike rates based on runners (not races) a bit of a nonsense as only one of your runners can win so sometimes it is possible to be harming your strike rate even when you win LOL

Although Shane's statewide strike rate is around 25% because it is so much higher at Newcastle (I would guess about 40%, I am not counting again for total runners!) that means for the rest of the state it is much much lower than 25% ( maybe 15%) therefore Newcastle (his home track mind you) is far more dominant than anywhere else

This thread is turning into a maths tutorial-right up your alley Shane!lol

As to the 1st statement that the Hunter Valley is dying, well in my opinion the Hunter is just another part of our market that is in decline. But is it any different to other geographical areas of our sport.

What we have today in NSW is that our two largest and most successful trainers are situated in Bathurst and the Hunter. Both of them have outstanding records that only adds to the continued success of both of them. Owners have always supported the best of the best, this is no different today or back some 35 years ago.

Today we do not have Sydney based Trainers that dominate as per the years gone by. Is there a reason or are there reasons that has resulted in us ending up with what we have today.
From an owners point of view I think the Sydney basin of Trainers have suffered to an extent due to the country supporting a raft of incentives undertaken by both NSWHRC and HRNSW. I should point out I suport them all as without them the Country Owners would suffer.
Is it time to look at what can be done to help the Sydney based Trainers, I think so.

You just have to look at the article in Trotguide this week to see that the Newcastle Club has gone from 13 Saturday nights to 25 Saturday nights to further help the area. This was undertaken by HRNSW in obviously reviewing what has been happening in this area. Let me say I do not know the ins and outs of this happening, what I do know is HRNSW would know exactly why they have gone this way.

Whenever you strengthen one area the balancing act is to hold onto all other areas and regions.
As I said, I don't know fully the reasons behind HRNSW allocating the extra Saturday nights, it could well be to split up the Trainers or make them decide on going to Menangle or stay at home.
Without a doubt we all need extra funds in all levels of our industry and hopefully some major inisitives can be undertaken once we have the Promesses of TAX harmonisation handed over. My understanding this could happen within the next couple of weeks.
One thing I do know is that what we have today in our two leading trainers both being Country based needs to be acknowledged as a super achievement as it just goes to show with hard work and professionalism you don't need to be based in the big smoke to be successful.
All good stuff but let's stay positive and back our leaders by supporting there successes.

Rob Nalder

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lasse

This thread is turning into a maths tutorial-right up your alley Shane!lol

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Lasse did you find a Newcastle premiership table somewhere or spreadsheet it like I did? The reason I ask is that although I only recorded Shane's, it seemed to me that a small number of trainers won a lot of Newcastle races and would like to see the premiership table (I am not going back and counting everybody's wins!)

Hi all,

I am not overly familiar with racing in regional NSW & I haven't really got the time to do too much detailed research into this subject so I will make a general comment.
I for one will never begrudge any trainer for working hard & getting huge results but obviously this does cause some problems for the sport in certain areas.
But I am of the opinion that careful programming can go along way to helping this sort of situation.So maybe this is an area that can be looked at instead of throwing daggers at trainers..
Yes I know most big stables have their "second stringers" but in general,smart programming/conditions can help...this also overflows to trainers placing their horses a bit smarter.
As a hobby trainer,who works a full time job,with a small team of giveaways I have to do this..granted some areas have alot more options than others..
Tough situation in the Hunter by the looks,agreed.

Since rob raised the issue about the clash in race dates I think is a massive concern for the area !!!!!

Currently I race on average 10-14 starts every time I race at Newcastle teir 1 meeting or Menangle metro meeting .. Now these meeting have been allocated the same night which posses the question what do I do with my 20-28 horse when these meeting clash ... 14 horses is the maximum I can transport and race with my staff and vehicles occupied in my business ... Not to mention my stable driver who my owners request now can only attend one of these meetings.. So when it all comes down to it one of these meetings will lose my stable on any given night .. Now I'm sure the powers to be will assume I will just transport my horses to Sydney and forget about Newcastle .. But Newcastle is my home club and I would rather nominate 28 horses for Newcastle then neglect them all together .. Hence the very topic of this forum will occur as now I will be forced to have even more runners at Newcastle ... This does not only effect me ... Trainers like M Formosa and D elder both have a well talented metro horse who they load up and take to Menangle every week .. Now these stables will be forced to choose between their best horse and the rest .. Not to mention any driver at Newcastle (aka young aspiring drivers) will now never get the opportunity to become metro drivers as they will never be able to give up the drives they have at Newcastle to give it a go ....

Please tell me if anyone else sees a problem with this ...

And also tell me what would happen to Newcastle if myself , mick , Darren .. Choose to go to Menangle and not race at Newcastle .. And don't forget no trainers coming up from Sydney as metro is on ...

Where will the horses come from as meetings struggle now .. They could potential lose 40% of the horses they currently have

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Messenger

Lasse did you find a Newcastle premiership table somewhere or spreadsheet it like I did? The reason I ask is that although I only recorded Shane's, it seemed to me that a small number of trainers won a lot of Newcastle races and would like to see the premiership table (I am not going back and counting everybody's wins!)

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No current premiership details on www.newcastletrots.com site.I went through the seasons results same as you.Off the top of my head I would think Kevin Pizzutto might have a better strike rate at Newcastle.The club would have the figures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lasse

No current premiership details on www.newcastletrots.com site.I went through the seasons results same as you.Off the top of my head I would think Kevin Pizzutto might have a better strike rate at Newcastle.The club would have the figures.

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I doubt anyone could have a better strike rate per race contested (51%) but maybe per starter. I was only scanning for Shane but it seemed to me that you saw other names winning quite a lot too: Pizzuto, Formosa, Harmey, Roots

Shane,

You probably need to talk to HRNSW as to the exact reasons behind more Saturday night dates for Newcastle. All I know is what I read in the Trotguide this week. As to the why I can only suggest it was at the request of the Newcastle Club as I know they have done it tough after they lost all the Saturday nights, Ros Gigg was always On my case big time hounding for the dates back when ever we got together.

As to what they race on Sky 1 or 2 will be interesting as going from a Friday Sky 1 night to posably Saturday on Sky 2.

I do understand your concerns in trying to be in two places on the same night is going to be extremely difficult to say the least.

Hopefully you can continue with what you do best for the sport by finding a way around it all. If anyone can find a way you will.

All the best,

Rob Nalder

I am beginning to think it was a bad idea starting this thread, firstly some people seem to think I was having a dig at Shane, which is 100% incorrect, the point was ENTIRELY to highlight that current circumstances are making it difficult for many smaller participants to continue and I know ( from the number of private messages/texts and phone calls) the vast majority of our learned forum posters have interpreted the points of the thread as such.


The overall good of the game has always and will always be my personal objective, I have only ever been a hobbyist but have always been a passionate one who , anyone who actually knows me, also knows I'm someone who loves heroes and despises pretenders in EVERY AVENUE of life.


So I would ask those who think I'm having a dig at Shane to think again......the thread was and is about the game, not the players. I thought I made that clear in the opening post but apparently not sufficiently so.


With regards to the allocation of more Saturday meetings to Newcastle, about all I can add to that is about bloody time, the club at Newcastle, (of which I am a member and also a director in it's formative years in it's current form back in the early 80's) was forced to race TAB meetings on Saturdays a very long time ago because Moonee Valley wanted to race Friday nights in concert with Harold Park in order to increase their own TAB turnover and hence returns ( at the time Club/ TAB payments were a defined percentage of turnover). So Newcastle, who at the time were racing most Friday nights and getting very good turnover and hence TAB funding partly because they were racing "in concert" with Harold Park, got SHAFTED and given the less lucrative Saturday night meetings.


The Newcastle club, lead exceptionally well for a long time by Ross had done a superb job of making Saturday Night racing a real success story and the club developed a business model which has been /was very successful for close to twenty years.


As such I'm not real keen to hear anyone having a whinge about Newcastle racing on a Saturday.

Danno, I do not know of any feedback you may have received about this thread other than the posts on it. For my part, I decided to investigate the dominance of one trainer, which you suggested was leaving too little for many others to survive. Mine and Lasse's sums showed that Shane Tritton is taking 27% of the pie.

I do not think you were having a dig at Shane but questioning whether his dominance was harmful. I am guessing the reason you did not name Shane was because, as you say, the issue you wished to raise was the possible effect of one trainer dominating a region. Your reference to how some of their runners improve suddenly possibly confused the issue and I think may have been better omitted as it had no real relevance to your topic of discussion.

As it turned out Shane's dominance is greater than what he thought it was but less than what you thought it was.
In doing my sums I did notice, although Shane's was the dominant name, there were other trainers also winning what seemed like a large percentage of races. I wonder whether these few as a collective have the potential to see others give away the game? If I have another day where I am rained in, I may extend my spreadsheet to examine how few trainers are indeed reaping 50% of the spoils at Newcastle.

I do not see anything wrong with your thread. It is not unlike the past debates we have had on this forum regarding the Halls or the Purdon/Rasmussen dominance

I'm going to add my two-cents on this debate re: Hunter Valley racing.


Despite the issues it causes for Shane, I agree with the others posting here that it could be a good thing Newcastle is racing on Saturday nights again, but I believe the programming leaves plenty to be desired. Rather than complain, I offer the following solution to HRNSW: have Newcastle race on Saturdays throughout the year (rather than just chucking 7 consecutive Saturdays at them during the winter months) but swap some of them with the restricted meetings held mid-week. I think the benefits of this proposal are:


1. hobby/smaller trainers will be more confident that when there is a restricted meeting on a Saturday, professional trainers with metro teams such as Tritton, Formosa etc. are less likely to have full teams attending Newcastle and therefore the hobby trainers are more likely to run and have success;


2. hobby/smaller trainers are more likely to attend a Saturday meeting relative to a mid-week meeting when they may have other work commitments;


3. Menangle and Newcastle won't always be competing for nominations from the same pool of horses; and


4. A consistent Saturday meeting is more likely to see attendances lift as people will know that Saturday is the home of racing at Newcastle.


In relation to Shane's success hurting the game in the Hunter Valley, consider the following key points:


1. I have gone from having a just few horses in WA to having ~20 horses in the Hunter (not just with Shane) and none here in WA (acknowledging I have three in QLD that were previously in the Hunter). The only reason I even have horses in the Hunter Valley is because of Shane and I know this is the case for other owners associated with Shane; and


2. Hunter Valley racing is bigger than just one trainer... I won't say "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" but I will say that a number of years ago in tennis, the powers that be were under pressure to address the dominance of the players with the big serve. There was talk of them limiting racquet technology, using bigger or softer tennis balls, or even only allowing one serve rather than two.............. What did happen was that the players and coaches adapted. The returners and counter-punchers became a force, like Agassi, Hewitt etc. What did happen in the Hunter was that some trainers felt they were entitled to break the rules to deal with the dominance of the big server - and no doubt this has contributed to a decline in numbers.


Lastly, in relation to the comment made that Shane is a super trainer that turns horses around "virtually overnight", whilst I am the first to sing the praises of Shane and Lauren as a trainer/driver combination (along with their team of stablehands and support drivers), there have been plenty of horses that have come past his stable (including those I bought) that have failed. In my view, the key reason for Shane appearing to turn so many horses around is that he will tell the connections pretty bluntly if he thinks a horse is not suited to his training style... and move them on... (I have moved many on that have subsequently won multiple races with other trainers).


P.s. Shane: get off this notice board and get back to looking after Lauren!

I am a small punter who for awhile had success at Newcastle but have now made it a no bet venue, mainly because of Shanes dominance the same reason i gave away betting on Mildura when the Crumps were dominating.The reason behind my decision is simply there horses are always short priced and dont let the average punter get a return for effort.I also dont bet on races where Emma Stewart is involved for the same reason.
Good luck to Shane as he seems to be an honest trainer that is having great success but it is not good for the sport in general for any stable to be so dominant.

Hi Danno,
I think it is a good thread mate & very relevant.
It is crucial for the continued survival of the sport that the lower levels of the racing fraternity are catered for,as it plays just as an
important role as the upper echelon.
Up here in QLD the top few stables dominate the scene but to the authorities credit they have provided us with a broad range of programmed racing & conditioned racing that allows us Neville Nobodys to be competitive & enjoy our chosen sport at our selected meetings.
They have obviously looked at the whole region,the pool of licensed participants,the horse pool & have attempted to program races strategically to keep everyone in the game
which I think they have succeeded in doing in recent times.
Yes I have to take time off work & do some travelling but it is either that or give it away.We would all love to race where we want to but we have to be realistic.

Is anyone worried what would happen to a Newcastle meeting if the current metro trainers don't attend , take away myself, M Formosa , Darren elder , M Callahan who all regularly race at Menangle metro . Then remove K turner , K Pizzuto , fitzpatricks , and any other Sydney based trainer who brings horses to Newcastle regularly ... It's one thing to say Saturday nights will be better which I'm sure they would be . But if they continue to clash with metro then will the club have enough horses to run their meetings ... Am I the only one that thinks this is a problem ???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shane tritton

Is anyone worried what would happen to a Newcastle meeting if the current metro trainers don't attend , take away myself, M Formosa , Darren elder , M Callahan who all regularly race at Menangle metro . Then remove K turner , K Pizzuto , fitzpatricks , and any other Sydney based trainer who brings horses to Newcastle regularly ... It's one thing to say Saturday nights will be better which I'm sure they would be . But if they continue to clash with metro then will the club have enough horses to run their meetings ... Am I the only one that thinks this is a problem ???

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On my phone and watching origin so can't link but I spot checked about 8 meetings circa 2010/2011. No Turner, one Fitzpatrick $1.20 shot (admittedly this is low for them), no Pizzutto (maybe rubbed out at that stage?). No Callahan. Formosa, Elder about 5 between them each meeting and you had max 5 each meeting (think Photograph, Red River View) but about 1 winner on average - sometimes none sometimea two. So the trainers are there somewhere be ause they were there in 2010 they just don't have the horses at the moment - so I think without those bigger trainers you name Newcastle would still be okay because those trainers making up the fields in 2010 would be back on deck (except Pike and Butterfield who had a few runners between them)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shane tritton

Is anyone worried what would happen to a Newcastle meeting if the current metro trainers don't attend , take away myself, M Formosa , Darren elder , M Callahan who all regularly race at Menangle metro . Then remove K turner , K Pizzuto , fitzpatricks , and any other Sydney based trainer who brings horses to Newcastle regularly ... It's one thing to say Saturday nights will be better which I'm sure they would be . But if they continue to clash with metro then will the club have enough horses to run their meetings ... Am I the only one that thinks this is a problem ???

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To answer your question Shane, I'd say very few people see that as a problem, indeed some would see it as a good thing, I'm sure the Newcastle club sees it as a good thing, they have been lobbying to get Saturday nights back since they lost them, as I mentioned in an earlier post the club was very successful with Saturday night racing for decades, there continues to be a strong base of horses in work in the Hunter despite the fact some people are walking away from the game for a number of reasons including those that have been mentioned on this thread.


Personally, I like to see things happen that are good for the game....but some people are pretty much focussed on what's good for themselves aren't they?

If this isn't a problem why are we struggling for numbers now without losing any of these horses ... Yes when we have 1 meeting a week we get by .. But newcastle have 2 meetings a week for a majority of the sat night clashes.. Currently when we have 2 meetings a week we have 6-8 races and only have 6-7 starting in a few of the races .. Are you really that convinced that these numbers are not going to drop ??

Everyone is comparing newcastle succes to years gone past .. But these times didn't clash with the metro meeting in our state ... This does not only affect me it affects anyone in this area who manages to get a metro quality horse .. Or any driver who wishes to progress to metro level ... ???? There is no way the horse pool
Outside my stable is anywhere near the same as it used to be ... Just look at the 2yos and 3yos .. They struggle for numbers even now at the busiest time of year for these age groups ... thoughta

The last time Newcastle raced on a Saturday when Menangle was also racing was in April this year, we had eight races and full fields in all of them, fields have been smaller recently not just in our area but also across the State, we have always had less horses in work at this time of the year, its a seasonal thing that's all.


I'm absolutely certain we will more see people coming to race at Newcastle on Saturday nights because of the work factor, as everyone knows despite the high numbers of horses in work with full timers such as yourself and Mick, there are a lot more that are prepared by hobbyists who find it harder to get to the track during the week, particularly when meetings are commencing at 4 and 5 o'clock.


Many will also see that when the bigger stables are at Menangle, there will be better opportunities at Newcastle for the lesser lights of the game.


So in my opinion, we will quite likely see stronger numbers of nominations at Newcastle on a Saturday night. Which of course is good for the game as a whole, as I said earlier, what's good for the game is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Some people just can't see past their own situation can they?

You keep saying that like I am not hearing you ... You started this post to say how dominate stables are killing the racing in this area ... I am trying to say without being obvious that if newcastle choose to race against Menangle .. I will be forced to either race none at Newcastle or all of them at Newcastle .. If I am made choose between Menangle and newcastle .. I will choose newcastle so if I turn up to newcastle with 30 horses ..will that help racing ?? .. Since U started this threat ... I don't want this to happen but I will have no other choice .. My owners want me racing their horses .. So I would rather support my home club then have none at my home club ..I guess this is the direction we need to go .. This is not my decision but it's the decision that is being forced on me .. So myself , mick , Darren , mark will rather than spilt our team race them at Newcastle every week ... Guess making the racing at Newcastle even more lope sided is better for the club ... And turnover ..

But what will you do with your Metro class horses Shane? Or am I missing something here ie Wont the clash be with the Menangle Metro night?

Race them at newcastle .. If there are 8 fact class horses then they will be forced to stand it up ... Regardless of how many are mine .. What's the alternative .. Hire a transport and new staff to take them to Menangle ... Newcastle is only 25mins away racing them all in the one night at newcastle is the only feasible way to race them all .. Without charging the owner a mint .. And regardless .. Why should the owners be forced to send horses away from where their trainer or driver is attending .. I WILL NOT BE FORCED TO RELOCATE TO MENANGLE .. This is my home ..

So I would imagine myself , mick , Darren mark and who ever else manages to get a metro class horse will be forced to race it at Newcastle ... Will only make the racing at Newcastle harder I suspect

Shane, I'm certain you will place your horses to their individual best advantage...that is a big part of your job, you have owners that will demand their horses are placed where the owner(s) maximise the returns. I'm saying that Saturday racing will be good for the club and what makes the club stronger makes us all stronger. And yes I keep repeating myself because I keep seeing the same thing. There are people running around trying to undo Newcastle racing Saturdays, they must think the whole game revolves around themselves hey?

I am not sure how programming works in NSW but I am thinking if the Newcastle meeting became the regular secondary meeting on the same night as Menangle you would be racing for far smaller stakes which would be a killer. I suppose with Newcastle often having 2 meetings a week, you would always have the option of using the non Saturday meet as the main one for the majority of your stable in work while taking the better ones to Menangle

Certainly not dan .. But the whole reason why the move is from Friday to sat night is to get more people
In the restaurant .. Because when we used to race on sat night more people went to the races ... My point is that why are we sooo convinced that sat night racing will be soo much better .. No doubt the races will go to sky 2 .. Which means a hell of a lot of home viewers won't be able to see it .. And if the crowds don't flock back to the trots .. As no once seems to come to newcastle on a Friday night ... Then we have lost these metro class owners and trainers to newcastle for nothing ... The club is ment to do what's best for the racing participants .. This move has only made it impossible from those participants who are being successful in this game ... It seems that maybe your the one that's only looking at who gets the benefit from a sat night meeting ... If this move makes running a successful training stable in this area difficult or practically impossible .. How can u say that Peoole are only worrying about theirselves ... I'm sure that if u was the person that trained or owned a metro class horse U oppinon wouldn't be so lopsided ...

The programming doesn't allowing for it kev... Teir 3 meetings don't allow well performed horses to race ... Maybe the solution is transferring the metro horses in our area to a Sydney trainer .. Cap newcastle trainers to only being provincial trainers .. And drivers ... This seems to be the popualr opinion ..

Shane, the Saturday night meetings were always easier for the club to attract sponsors, the way this works is the sponsor gets to "wine and dine" a given number of people per race sponsored, usually their customers and/or staff, people who typically don't go to the trots, so the benefit is also there of introducing people to Harness Racing , it is harder to sell the sponsorship model on any other day as you can imagine, so the reason why the club has been trying to get more Saturdays back is based on quite a bit more than just trying to get bums on seats in the restaurant.




I certainly don't think restricting or capping trainers is the answer either, if I did I would have mentioned it earlier, but for the majority of participants in the Hunter Valley Saturday night racing is a good thing and for the club its a good thing, for you it's a headache, but I don't have to tell you that you are only one person do I.

Dan, I have said many times that owners (horses) = attendee, as as our future owners are not going to come from people sitting in a club or their own lounge (mind you that is probably where our attendees may come from)
BUT what do you think of Shane's point that with duplicate meetings, Newcastle will end up on Sky 2 - will that hurt the club/region?

Not so sure if it will go to Sky 2 Kev, however, that said, if it does happen, then I can't see it being essentially GOOD and I suppose will the benefits outweigh the negatives? I obviously hope so, in a perfect world Newcastle gets most of it's Sat night meetings back and Menangle goes back to Fridays, because I think that was a mistake that has hurt the game itself. Will that happen? Don't think so. Turnover is down all over the place, I've banged on many times about the reasons for that and what we can do about and what is out of our control.


Wish I had all the answers Kev, but like everyone else I don't.