Remedial Biology anyone?

G'day all,
In the spirit of the 'rant' thread from a few days ago now...here's one that ticks me off.
Horsemen lamenting their horses having contracted the ubiquitous 'Virus' who then go on to say how they've given them a shot of Antibiotics & hoped that they'd recover pretty quickly.
JESUS WEPT!!!!!!!!! Someone in Officialdom please put out a Press Release to let these guys know that banging a big ol' syringe full of Penicillen into a horse isn't going to lay a glove on a Virus let alone stop one. Antibiotics are of course only effective against Bacterial infections.
End rant.

In case anyone is sceptical of VVV's mini rant , there are a million posts on the web that say exactly this. Here is just one that really covers it completely:

"Penicillin works by dissolving the cell walls of most bacteria. Viruses have no cell walls. They're just little (tiny even compared to a bacterium) balls of armored protein plating surrounding a package of what is usually RNA. The RNA carries instructions on how to build more viruses. When the virus bumps into a suitable cell it injects the RNA, which takes over the cell and converts it into a factory for producing more viruses.

It's not even technically "alive" because it can't do much without a host cell. No metabolism to jam, a durable capsid or envelope that looks a lot like other things in a cell you don't want to dissolve... killing viruses is hard because they're so simple there's not much to break. Their simplicity is their strength.

There are antiviral drugs but they don't work too well. Remember that antibiotics will do absolutely nothing against a virus."

That's the end of today's lecture ;-)

Thank you Thank you. I have read/talked to many a trainer/owner etc who have said that same thing to me over the years. The press publish what a trainer has said. Trackside interview trainers who say the same thing, yet no one ever bothers to mention antibiotics are only effective against Bacterial infections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah, isn't it the vet giving the 'antibiotic' or whatever to the horse? And shouldn't the vet know? Nine times out of ten its only a cold. A virus sounds better than a cold anyway. I've never had a day off work for a cold. But i've always had a flu! My pet hate is when a trainer is asked how their horse is going, and inveriably the reply is "he's goin good".

Trainer speak can be a language all of its own.
I always got a cold shiver down my spine when I heard "He's doin' everything we ask of him right now." Thankfully I haven't heard it for quite a while. These days it would translates as..."I've done bugger all with him to this point in time but he's filling a box and you're paying the monthly training fees and that allows me to make the repayments on my new 152 inch Panasonic plasma TV ". :rolleyes:

if they knew past yr 10 science they wouldnt be trainers triple v...

lucky camilla... a cold is a virus, caused by a rhinovirus... trainers all have penicillin in some form and they give it out like tic tacs, the vet doesnt enter the equation, a good horse will probably get a blood test, but only after they drop out as a 1.50 favourite

antibiotics will cause more harm as they wipe out the immune system, vitamin c has no effect, and young horses with a low immunity (yearlings with warts will loose them over time as they mature) should be kept away from race horses (cran dalgety built a new barn for the youngsters)

rant over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sushi

if they knew past yr 10 science they wouldnt be trainers triple v....

That's not very fair! There is a gentleman in Brisbane who happens to be a barrister AND trotting trainer/driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sushi

vitamin c has no effect.

False. Inject 20mL twice a day intravenously for almost any ailment (infections, any sort of sickness, bleeders etc) and you'll soon see how well it works - even on those considered "terminal'!! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by triplev123

Someone in Officialdom please put out a Press Release to let these guys know that banging a big ol' syringe full of Penicillen into a horse isn't going to lay a glove on a Virus let alone stop one. Antibiotics are of course only effective against Bacterial infections.
End rant.

lmao - the good old "virus" - what every horse out of form or who puts in a bad run seems to get! :P I don't think they give Penicillin at all - I just think they are trying to save face from a bad performance... one has to say something :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashing Red

That's not very fair! There is a gentleman in Brisbane who happens to be a barrister AND trotting trainer/driver.

And I know plenty of people in the industry who went on to year 12 .....but failed.

find a study promoting the use of vitamin c and you will find 5 others saying it has no effect...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sushi

find a study promoting the use of vitamin c and you will find 5 others saying it has no effect...

I take the results of studies very seriously - they provide wonderful and useful information. I research and pay for many articles online from scientific journals for a wide range of things, studies on the effects of drugs, or amino acids, anything really. But when push comes to shove, personal experience will override anything done (IMHO) in a lab under a controlled environment. Why don't you spend $20 on a book by Pat Coleby called Natural Horse Care - that is where my fascination with Vitamin C started from. She has saved countless and countless of cancer patients (including her own son, who was sent home from hospital to die) and animals with a wide range of ailments with large and prolonged dosages of vitamin c (and sometimes other substances, such as vitamin A). I have also experimented with Vitamin C (and other different substances) on a number of horses that were otherwise going to be euthanised. I (and their owners) had nothing to loose. Either what I did worked, or they were being euthanised anyway. Horses clinics had given up on. I haven't had one die on me yet - the sad thing is, when I tell vets what I have done, they straight away tell me "oh that wouldn't have worked". They don't want to know. It goes against what they are taught and these scientific controlled studies. I have also treated horses with severe internal problems that for one reason or another they have not been able to return to the races. While they may never always return to their best - they get back to the races which is the main thing. You wouldn't believe what works sometimes - a certain old fashioned pot and pan cleaner in small doses actually cures arthritis! I have tried it on myself (bad knees), family members, cats, dogs, horses - works on them all :)
Either way, I know from experience vitamin C works. I couldn't care less if every single study in the world said I was wrong. :) Flashing Red is one of the said examples - after his success there have been numerous others I have experimented on - with 100% success :) The works of Pat Coleby and Victoria Ferguson are fascinating if you're interested (I appreciate that some people don't agree with alternative therapies, that's OK) - and well worth the money :)

What's a good remedy for a mare who when urinating strains a lot to no avail has a walk around then can go with some straining she is in full work and ready to race all her work is good
and blood o'k but seems to drink a lot of water approx 30- 40 litres a day at the moment any help appreciated

Have you sought advice from your vet about this?

Sounds like a Urinary tract come Bladder infection or kidney stones to me Winston. Time for a urine collect & culture and an ultrasound on her kidneys.

I agree you should get a vet onto this - the two symptoms you mentioned are both "kidney" related IMHO. An old timer remedy for this is Epsom salts - a couple of tablespoons morning and night in their feed (providing they eat it) does wonders for the kidneys. You can't give this sort of dose long term (normally only for 3-4 days then reduce it to 1 teaspoon a day) as it can damage the covering of the kidneys (I once worked for a galloping trainer who wanted us to put a whole handful of epsom salts in the racehorses water buckets every day - I cringed!!).

Either way, sounds like your mare may have had this problem for a while... while I first would use the epsom salts if one of my own began to shown similar signs, if it continued for more than a couple of days I would be checking with the vet asap and not fiddling around hoping for something to work :)

If it is an infection, epsom salts won't do anything... but there are other things that will work wonders (but do see your vet first). Inbox me if you want to know anything else :) Good luck :)

Absolutely, do not delay any longer , call your vet onto this immediately. You need professional advice. This can develop into a very much more serious condition if not treated early.

Tried Epsom Salts thanks everyone for your suggestions next stop vet Monday morning

Hi Winston - try Rosehip tea. Boil 1 litre of water and add half a dozen Rosehip teabags. When its cooled down dampen the feed with it or alternately syringe in the mouth. Also use Collodal Silver. Simply syringe the silver.
A quick way to check to see if it is kidney related is check the mares teeth and gums. If gums are pale and imflammed, it's like to be bladder or kidney.

Interesting advice , but PLEASE , for your horse's sake Winston , keep that vet appointment tomorrow.

Problem solved she is tying up the vet mixed up blood results from last week(got horses name wrong when speaking to him) and i was treating a gelding for it all good today

I am really glad you found out what was wrong with her, tying up is a pretty easy ailment to fix! :) Bit concerning that the bloods were mixed up! What happens if she was in an upcoming Oaks or something like that... ohwell, all's well that ends well! :)

We would have scratched the vet's ears are still ringing with the reply i gave him he didn't charge for treatment to gelding