Lazarus to the USA

[Showgrounds]

We all live in hope of getting a horse that lacks the zip and fitness required at the mile like Lazarus so obviously does. Come to think of it, I've had dozens that lack he zip and fitness required for ANY distance.

Can't recall any of them reminding me of Lazarus, though.

[Messenger]

Gee, I thought Lazarus was a great horse - I must be wrong!

There is a gulf of difference in racing in two Miracle Miles and their lead-ups and going around Menangle week after week over a mile. If he were a run-of-the-mill free for all horse, he would probably have bettered his 1:49.0 record many times over. I reckon 1:49.0 from only 4 Aus starts over the mile was a pretty good endorsement for a stallion. He went 54.9 winning over the trip at Cambridge (jogging) at his only other start over the trip.

If "speed" is everything, you could mount an argument for most Meadowlands-based claimers. Put "Laz" outside them; they'd collapse! Don't go off on a tangent by dreaming up a knock on him, he was (and I say that only because he is spelling) the best pacer in the world.

I don't think he has any Southern knockers Trevor but you have to be fair and appreciate how hard it is going to be to get Americans to be interested in him unless he SMASHES the clock - even then they will put a knock on it not being as a juvenile

[aussiebreno]

We all live in hope of getting a horse that lacks the zip and fitness required at the mile like Lazarus so obviously does. Come to think of it, I've had dozens that lack he zip and fitness required for ANY distance.

Can't recall any of them reminding me of Lazarus, though.

His zip and fitness at the mile is 9.5/10. His fitness for 2200m plus racing is 10/10. Thats a big difference at grand circuit level. He is on par with the great milers, but at 2200m + he is in the conversation for best ever.

Our Waikiki Beach ran straight past him 2 yrs ago in the Miracle Mile and Laz made no impression in this years Mile. That just doesnt happen to him in 2400m races.

[Showgrounds]

I don't think he has any Southern knockers Trevor but you have to be fair and appreciate how hard it is going to be to get Americans to be interested in him unless he SMASHES the clock - even then they will put a knock on it not being as a juvenile

Are you suggesting his new US owners have, based on the opinion of a few keyboard warriors, made a poor commercial decision? Haven't done their due diligence? Doubt it.

[teecee]

1:52.9 at 2yo
1:49 in a well beaten MM effort (when others suggest he has not the zip).
Whilst his race record may be considered superior at longer distances these were what he was trained for. It should be remembered Both MM efforts were at the end of long campaigns.
Many / most of these performances were mile rated at mid to low 1:50's. There is a thread on this forum listing "fast mile rates." These rates Lazarus does on the training track in many examples.
I for one have no doubt he can produce the zip ( as it is referred to prior ) to run the required time sought by his new owners in putting him back into work before his stud duties.

Ref Post #14 above a huge NO from me.

[Richard prior]

I agree with Teecee, Lazarus will be trained for Mile racing when he arrives in the USA and that is totally different to the stamina type training that he has been put through for the last couple of years, I learnt long ago to not knock a champion and that’s exactly what Lazarus is, The new US owners would have a grand plan for him in mind and that will include running fast miles and a stud career for sure, I have no doubt whatsoever that he could run fast miles if he is trained that way and I can’t wait to see how this transpires, It’s extremely exciting to see some of our better horses go up against the Americans and now our best is going to give it a crack, I wish Laz and the new owners lots of luck

[Messenger]

Are you suggesting his new US owners have, based on the opinion of a few keyboard warriors, made a poor commercial decision? Haven't done their due diligence? Doubt it.

It has nothing to do with any posters (keyboard warriors? You would seem to be the one in warrior mode). Of course I have no detailed info on the deal but I would say that it could never be a surprise to anybody to hear about a bad horse deal - come on Trevor this is the racing industry! The value of a deal is pretty much a matter of doing the sums and the numbers may make this deal a no brainer - based purely on the Southern hemisphere fall back option with the Northern hemi dream a bonus if it comes off. If it has to be a lot more than a bonus then we are talking about serious risk v reward stuff. Lazarus is a champion and it is hard to imagine him not smashing miles when trained exclusively for them but he also has to stay fit. The deal may be good enough for him to only need to win a few races and an American stud career seen as a pure bonus. Maybe the new owners have a big band of mares of their own but they might need to for surely you would have to concede that most Americans are pretty parochial when it comes to all things sporting

[Richard prior]

Agree with that also Kev, I think Trevor took your post the wrong way, The Americans as a whole will scrutinise Laz I have no doubt about that but the new owners come from the Ohio area and they will concentrate on that area with their own band of mares and probably see what happens from there.

[aussiebreno]

1:52.9 at 2yo
1:49 in a well beaten MM effort (when others suggest he has not the zip).
Whilst his race record may be considered superior at longer distances these were what he was trained for. It should be remembered Both MM efforts were at the end of long campaigns.
Many / most of these performances were mile rated at mid to low 1:50's. There is a thread on this forum listing "fast mile rates." These rates Lazarus does on the training track in many examples.
I for one have no doubt he can produce the zip ( as it is referred to prior ) to run the required time sought by his new owners in putting him back into work before his stud duties.

Ref Post #14 above a huge NO from me.

Yep, I think it got missed because of Trevor ranting about the zip comment but I did note he may find that bit extra zip when being trained for the mile.

[Grinder]

At risk of stirring some into defensive mode, it should also be said that after all the expense and trouble, there is the possibility that Lazarus could turn out to be a dud as a sire. Many famous and fabulous harness racing stallions have not left their mark as sires.

My wish is that Laz wins against the best pacers in the US in sub or around 1:46 and goes on to be a sought after and successful sire in both hemispheres. That said, I am under no illusion (or delusion) about how so much has to go right for him, including acclimatising to a new environment, avoiding injury and illness, and, of course dealing with (and hopefully dodging) bad luck.

I don't think anyone who has joined this conversation on this forum wants him to fail; quite the opposite. His further success will put harness racing on this side of the globe in the spotlight for all the right reasons.