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Thread: Presidential Ball as a broodmare sire/Northern Luck as a Sire info required.

  1. #21
    Senior Member 2YO HISGEN65 will become famous soon enough HISGEN65's Avatar
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    Thanks mate...very nice colt & great to see a broodie is first class nick also.
    I have liked Sutter as a horse since I first heard of him..

    Check this filly out...the video was taken when she was 4 months old
    Fingers crossed she will be a nice race horse for me
    She is by Mr Aviator out of my Trump Casino mare
    Bit of an old mix but she is a nice type

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y3FSIrFhbE

  2. #22
    Senior Member 2YO Big Max will become famous soon enough
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    Congrats James,very nice filly,it will be interesting to see how Mr Aviator goes with his first crop,i know a few people that went to him so fingers crossed.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HISGEN65 View Post
    Thanks mate...very nice colt & great to see a broodie is first class nick also.
    I have liked Sutter as a horse since I first heard of him..

    Check this filly out...the video was taken when she was 4 months old
    Fingers crossed she will be a nice race horse for me
    She is by Mr Aviator out of my Trump Casino mare
    Bit of an old mix but she is a nice type

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y3FSIrFhbE
    [VVV] G'day James,
    Geeze, it's hard not to like her. Big & strong and light on her feet. A great result. That's exactly what I mean when I bang on about flesh and blood. Breeders can easily get too hooked up on this cross or that cross or this sireline or that one...and in doing so forget about the fact that the resultant foal can only ever be a physical combination of the sire and dam. I've done it myself, twice in fact, and you'd have thought I would have learned the first time around, but no.
    I bred a small sire to a small, fine boned mare because it looked great on paper & then later on I bred another small sire to yet another small, fine boned mare, again ignoring both sire & dam as types. I got exactly what I deserved in both instances, small and fine boned colts & try as they might, neither were much good, they were just too small, and that was all my fault.
    There are always exceptions as far as small mares leaving big foals and big mares leaving small foals, but generally speaking I reckon the best way to approach it is to try & overlay a mental picture of the sire on a mental picture of the dam and with the intention of trying to correct as many of their respective faults as possible.
    I read a piece once where a bloke put it so well " There are people in this business who will breed mice to mice and elephants to elephants...." (& I can't rememeber the rest of it word for word) but basically he said he didn't get into bloodlines much, instead the sires that he picked for his mares had to be complimentary types. He didn't breed a sire that toed out to a mare that did the same, he didn't breed big to big nor small to small etc. It was one of the most refreshingly common sense interviews I've read in a long time and I honestly don't think there's anything more to it than that.
    Over the centuries for various reasons we humans have allowed ourselves to be swept away with the 'mystique' of the horse...as though its reproduction and that of all other forms of livestock are somehow mutually exclusive. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Basic livestock breeding principles apply be it a horse or a cow or a sheep or a chicken. Form and Function come first and foremost. The rest, IMO, is just pleasant window dressing.

  4. #24
    Junior Member Weanling Kevin Dinnigan will become famous soon enough Kevin Dinnigan's Avatar
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    Hi James..The Gold Rush..nice breeding lines....I have had a good look at your mares bloodlines...An Abercrombie/Artsplace sire out of a Direct Scooter mare would be ideal on paper .A son of Art Major..Santanna Blue Chip, out of a Direct Scooter line mare would be worth a look, He stands at Alabar for around $4k. A cheaper sire with the right bloodlines Pacific Rocket a son of Albert Albert out of a Direct Scooter mare stands in NSW for around $2k .
    I have a bloodline report for you mare with Santanna Blue Chip...looks good..email me on Kevin.Dinnigan@Three.com.au an i will email it to you.
    Kind Regards..Kevin.

  5. #25
    Senior Member 2YO Starship Captain will become famous soon enough Starship Captain's Avatar
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    TripleV, that foal has some size, nice paddock they are in.

    The Mr Aviator filly certainly has the looks, being from the south I have not heard of the sire, will look him up.

    Congrat's to you both on the condition of the mares and foals.

  6. #26
    Senior Member 4YO dizzy will become famous soon enough
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    James your Mr Aviator filly looks a good sort, what sort of budget are you thinking of for The Goldrush? Jamie I couldn't agree more with your form and function philosophy but when a bit more use of the grey matter may also reveal historical precedents for and against such matings why not use it?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzy View Post
    James your Mr Aviator filly looks a good sort, what sort of budget are you thinking of for The Goldrush? Jamie I couldn't agree more with your form and function philosophy but when a bit more use of the grey matter may also reveal historical precedents for and against such matings why not use it?
    [VVV] Sure, no question...even if I find a horse that I think physically compliments a mare, if I have an idea or even just a feeling that, for whatever reason, the rest doesn't sit right then I keep looking.
    The horse I've really taken a shine to, although his bloodlines are a bit out of left field, is Sweet Lou. He was a wicked fast 2yo and has come back big-time at 3yrs, with all things being even he should win the NA Cup this weekend. He's by Yankee Cruiser (who is in turn a son of Artiscape, funnily enough a horse I never had much time for) and he's from a mare by Falcon's Future who is in turn from a mare by Nero.
    As I said, a bit off-beat bred but man oh man he is form and function all the way and then some. 1:47.4 last week to equal the Mohawk Track Record and he went to the line like he still had a slice in reserve.

  8. #28
    Senior Member 4YO dizzy will become famous soon enough
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    Yes Sweet Lou is a very nice colt but their are some "ripples" about his trainer. I could offer a suggestion as to where some of that speed came from but as their are those who don't believe in such things I won't. Artiscape was considered a failure in this part of the world which would have made Yankee Cruiser a hard sell for any stud which is a shame because I think he could have done fitted in nicely in NZ. Maybe Sweet Lou will find himself on a flight south one day.

    On an earlier post Jamie you said Cammibest could not be inbred because his sire and dam are from different maternal families, my understanding is that inbred is the mating of closely related individuals, I cant find anything that limits "closely related" to through female lines only if you could explain further? Whilst we consider only the progeny of mares to be full or part siblings, geneticly the progeny of stallions are also siblings. In human terms if your father had a son with a women other then your mother would you not consider that child to be your half brother? The nuclear DNA of any foal/child is contributed 50/50 from both the male and female parent. The female does solely contribute the mitachrondial DNA to the foal/child and whilst MTDNA is significant it is a very small % of the total DNA.

    I don't think the TB breeders have had as you so elequently put it "their head up their arse" on in/linebreeding but rather were the original exponents of it when breeding TB"s was the province of wealthy men many years ago. In more recent times with a change in the TB industry to commercial breeding, that is studs trying to attract as large a book to their stallions as possible to recover the huge investments made to purchase them, more selective breeding practices of previous years went out the window. Whilst we will always be able to find successfull examples of horses bred on the 3x3 on the sire line I'd like to see the figures on these as a % of those bred that way. As it only takes around 10 years to be able to start breeding 3x3 crosses on the sire line and a few more years after that to evaluate them then if that was the most successful method to produce topliners then don't you think after 250 to 400 years of breeding STB's and TB's thats all we'd breed for now if it was the most successfull?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple V View Post
    G'day Kevin,
    I had a look through his fastest/better class race winners and something interesting popped up. There are quite a few in there (including a number that have gone in 1:50 or faster and won 250k+) that are in fact linebred to Cam Fella...as in PB mares having been bred to Cam Fella line sires such as Pacific Fella, his son No Pan Intented and NPI"s half brother Bettor's Delight as well as Camotion etc. If you decided to go down that road there are any number of Cam Fella line sires available to you here in Oz, just depends on what your mare's like in relation to them and what you want to spend.
    [VVV] BOTH 125k NSW Breeders Challenge Final 2yo winners are linebred 3x3 to Cam Fella.

  10. #30
    Senior Member 4YO dizzy will become famous soon enough
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    Jamie you really need to start reading or typing more carefully, Married to the Mob is 3x3 to Cam Fella on the sire line but No Ah Saint is not. Before you start shouting again Grand Stride is 3x3 on the sire line but to Abercrombie. Hey if you believe this type pedigree configuration is best there is nothing stopping you from using it as these type crosses are very easy to achieve. And as we need more horses I encourage you to give it your best shot.

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