I'll split it with you lol.Originally Posted by Messenger
Yeah, I see that now Rich but they only tried once - maybe a 2nd time with a full sister. A Bettors foal should be no slouch and also rated as an excellent match on Pedigree Partner.
Maybe when I win Powerball tonight
Thoughts
Dam is half sister to Cincinnati Kid √ but she is yet to produce a winner and in the family N67 the Kid has not got many star performers for company
I think the jury is still out on American Ideal and it would not hurt your prospects if Bling It On was to win on Sunday
I can see why you selected American Ideal as your mare's pedigree plays nicely to his dam side
I hope she is a good looking filly and you do very well at the sale Figgy
ps I am as big an amateur as you can get so take little heed of what I say
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
Not sure how anyone can say 'jury is still out' on American Ideal as sire...look at these facts, and then go read his foal numbers and compare with other sires .....
American Ideal, in 2013/2014 became the sire of THE BEST 3 YR COLT IN AUST (Bling It On), THE SECOND BEST 3 YR FILLY IN NZ (Ideal Belle), AND THE TOP 2YR OLD IN USA-Canada IN 2013 AND NOW IN 2014 AT 3 HE BEING THE MEADOWLANDS PACE WINNER IN WORLD RECORD (HE'S WATCHING-1.46.4).
In Sept 2014 the winner (Sunfirebluechip) of the $200,000 4 yr Canadian classic Prix de Tete. Right now he is probably the best 4 yr old male pacer in Nth America and is also by American Ideal.
In addition 2 of the older FFA male pacers in 2014 in USA are by same sire AI; being Heston Blue Chip (prior 3 yr old of his year in Nth America and winner of over $1.75 million) and Big Town Hero (this latter AI pacer who earlier won this year in 1.47.3 - on five fur track- in Sept 2014 won the top class $200,000 FFA pace as 6 yr old, winning the Jim Ewart Memorial in 1.48.2 - equaling the track record- where he defeated Sweet Lou and Foiled Again etc).
I ask where are all the hundreds of Art Major foals now racing in FFA ranks anywhere in world. My guess is by end of age 4 most Art Major's have bowed one of their front tendons (like sire Artsplace did as racehorse) and are retired or racing with much medical support. I would be interested in feedback of anyone else with an Art Major tendon bow experience.
I think that's a pretty fair appraisal Kev.
Thanks guys, I appreciate your comments.
Fiona,
I can't agree with most of the comments above.
Anything that has Paulreta close up in its pedigree is worth serious consideration.
Paul Command and Hurricane Paul were two outstanding horses and are close up in her pedigree.
The fact that your filly is a 3/4 sister to The Orange Agent who looked so smart in the two year races at Auckland this year means your filly has a lot going for it.
It all comes down when buying horses to the individual.
But you can't fault the breeding of your filly that's for sure.
We all know that your thoughts as a pro should hold a lot more weight than mine as an enthusiast but lets think of our opinions as being from the perspective of a buyer (me) and a seller (you)
You cannot agree with most of the comments - I think I made five comments
1 The dam being a half sister to Cincinnati Kid is a plus
2 The dam is yet to produce a winner
3 Family N67 does not have many star performers
4 The jury is still out on American Ideal
5 I liked the line breeding in her filly's pedigree
Which of these comments do you not agree with?
As you said it very much comes down to the individual. I think I am far more conservative with my 'outstandings' than you.
Maybe I am too particular but after bringing up the descendants of Paulreta (1969) and comparing them to the descendants of Ladyeen (1971) the A1 family in which I had a nice broodmare and winning full sister to one of the black type - well I would be no more enthusiastic about her well bred progeny.
I am very glad Fiona got more than my perspective. Overall I would summarize it like so - I would be happy to have bred Miss Patriot for myself but I would not be too confident of a big return if I had bred her to sell
The Orange Agent is definitely a plus that I did not know about and probably something that a seller would have to bring to the attention of most Aussies.
Last edited by Messenger; 08-25-2014 at 05:46 PM. Reason: typo
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
It is great to get some constructive feedback so thank you. We are only small breeders and our biggest wish is that any horse we sell gets every opportunity. I would love to keep this filly but we do have a half sister by Live or Die to carry on with to race and maybe future breed. Honey Ryders first foal died at 6 months old so not sure what happened there as we didnt own the mare then, her second is a McArdle 4 year old which again we didnt breed but hasnt shown up. We did buy her in foal to Elsu which is the third foal, a colt which was a very nice type and we sold for a modest but fair price at the yearling sales, I think he is not far away from making an appearance at the workouts. We then have the Live or Die and then Miss Patriot. Our expectations are not huge on a return for her as long as she gets a chance to prove herself...... as has been proven some of the best horses were the cheapest buys and there are some $200,000 riding hacks out there. Hey we will just see what pans out on the 11th Sept......
Really Kev ,if you are going to comment on Nz families, you need to talk to someone who has some knowledge because you really are wide of the mark here.
I have been in the game a long time and have access to every book/reference book you could name but I still wouldn't feel qualified to speak on Australian maternal families with any degree of confidence. All the books/internet give you is an overview of families ,not an insight.
Experience gives you that
At the same time I have read so many comments on Nz families that are wide of the mark from the other side of the Tasman i have to wonder why you bother.
The maternal family in question here is known to Kiwis as Tot Huon (116B)
It has been the premium dual gaited family on this side of the Tasman.
A lot of our best horses come from from dual gaited families (Christian Cullen, Elsu) and for a family that you claim has few stars I would love to know how you would rate the following horses
Paula--- Paul Gentry---Game Paul---Paula Scott---Hurricane Paul---Paul Command and Paul's Byrd to name just a few for a start.
The last thing that ever concerns me when assessing an individual is what foal number they are.
You get hung up on foal number and you will miss some lovely individuals.
Kate Perry is just the last in a long line of ignoring what her siblings have done and running like her breeding suggests she should.
The fifth foal from her dam when purchased and nothing had raced but a quality individual in the flesh that impressed Cran Dalgety enough to buy her.
As for American Ideal, he has done a lovely job on this side of the Tasman which is reflected in the huge books he has served here in the last four years.
If you want to be taken seriously when talking about New Zealand, then you need to get out of your reference books and talk to some people on the ground.
Here's a wee quiz for you.
What is the best bred mare in the up coming sale.
Not the best producer, just the best bred mare in the sale.
I am genuinely interested in your opinion so I would appreciate a reply.
Last edited by Viv Strangman; 08-26-2014 at 12:10 AM.
I am delighted that I have created such a vibrant discussion on our mares family and I appreciate all comments. We are having a year off breeding this season to give our mares progeny time to show us something! We also own Jessem's band but from the time she was in foal to Red River and have sent her to stallions that will hopefully give her the opportunity, her filly Godspeed (American Ideal) is due to step out at workouts very soon and her colt Guilty Pleasure ( Real Desire) is showing a lot of promise. (We sold both these as yearlings and have been told by the owner) who has just purchased the Sportswriter colt from us. Exclusive Franco is our other mare who is taking a while to produce something but her 2nd foal In Sin City (who is racing in oz) has just won 2 in a row, not a superstar but doing ok. We have a 3 year old filly from her by Gotta Go Cullect who is due to trials soon, wanted to get the Cullen and Live or Die mix with her and looks like might go well. The mare has a double up of the Old Maid which I understand is good. So for us what started off as being in a syndicate leasing a racehorse in 2005 has really escalated into 3 mares, 2 foals to come, a yearling, 2 year old, 3 & 4 year old!!
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