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Thread: Leeton Breeders Plate Debate

  1. #21
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrain View Post
    It is a night meeting Brenno. Most trainers who travel significant distances stay for the week. The number of trainers doing that is less and less though. The race has previously carried bonus prizes such as a new float to the winning trainer. This still hasn't increased the numbers in any significant way.
    The way I look at it though, if your horse can roll along ok, it's an easier 40k to target than running second in the Breeders Crown.
    At the end of the day if the race was in Feb or later there would be a lot more entrants. So many trainers give up on a prep because Dec races weren't standing up (or this year there were none around) so you're rushing your horse to be ready even though there will no other races for it, or people just don't even bother in the first place because it so early. I would love a dollar for how many times a Riverina trainer has said "I would have liked to get to the Breeders Plate but the horse just wasn't ready yet". If the race is in Feb or later that horse is ready and the heat fields have a lot more numbers.

    Edit: Also, are they immune to heat in their paddock and on the float?

  2. #22
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    You are always at the mercy of the weather gods - down here Feb is much hotter than Dec
    Exertion in the extreme heat (or more so humidity) is the concern
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  3. #23
    Senior Member 3YO Gtrain has a spectacular aura about Gtrain's Avatar
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    The crowds the race draws in that time period is far superior to any other meeting in the Riverina. Far far superior. The heats night is the best crowd night of any trotting meeting in nsw. I don't think any trainers "rush" their horses to get ready for it. You either give them a chance, they show it, or they go out to the paddock. Pushing back has been discussed for a long time, and will happen next year, but previously has been unviable as it clashes with other carnivals, or other 2yo races. When it's pushed back, are people just going to need their 2yos to run 1.58 instead of 1.59 and still be pulling out for the same reasons?
    It's an art getting one ready. Ask Col Thomas, Peter Manning etc. I would love a dollar for every trainer who wished they had a horse in a 40k race but their horse wasn't good enough. That's no real statement. I want one in the miracle mile every year too.
    The race is unique. Field numbers have struggled but go through the starters and compare it to the field you get at the Young Cup or the Wagga Pacers Cup. The vast majority are Riverina trained. Four from the last five winners have been. It keeps serious prizemoney in the area.
    I also think you'll find that four from the last five winners lived in stables, where trainers are able to shelter horses a little from the heat.

  4. #24
    Senior Member 4YO Fan of Jate will become famous soon enough
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    A good discussion and always good to hear every angle relating to the topic, my point was the lack of entrants and the prize money being seen as average, although it is more than the recent inter dominion consolation a few weeks ago. So IMO something is out of kilter

  5. #25
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrain View Post
    The crowds the race draws in that time period is far superior to any other meeting in the Riverina. Far far superior. The heats night is the best crowd night of any trotting meeting in nsw. I don't think any trainers "rush" their horses to get ready for it. You either give them a chance, they show it, or they go out to the paddock. Pushing back has been discussed for a long time, and will happen next year, but previously has been unviable as it clashes with other carnivals, or other 2yo races. When it's pushed back, are people just going to need their 2yos to run 1.58 instead of 1.59 and still be pulling out for the same reasons?
    It's an art getting one ready. Ask Col Thomas, Peter Manning etc. I would love a dollar for every trainer who wished they had a horse in a 40k race but their horse wasn't good enough. That's no real statement. I want one in the miracle mile every year too.
    The race is unique. Field numbers have struggled but go through the starters and compare it to the field you get at the Young Cup or the Wagga Pacers Cup. The vast majority are Riverina trained. Four from the last five winners have been. It keeps serious prizemoney in the area.
    I also think you'll find that four from the last five winners lived in stables, where trainers are able to shelter horses a little from the heat.
    I am in that crowd and know full well - although a lot of the crowd are Leeton locals it has been noticeably small in recent years since it go Sky status. Albury New Years only crowd that can compare to Leetons carnival in the Riverina. Just put the Leeton Cup on Boxing Day and make sure Billy Trembath and Reece Maguire have drives. The locals are still looking for somewhere to drink and can't name the horses anyway.
    The Linden Huntley is no more so late Feb/early March would be a better fit. As it is they've changed it to clash with the Junee Cup...
    The $6000 C races do not stand up in December, January. By March the 2yo races are beginning to stand up because more 2yos are ready and some are targeting Bathurst. Pretty simple I would have thought if you don't have the horse pool racing in December but have the horse pool racing in March (or August - any month) - what month are you going to get the bigger pool of horses for the heats?

    Even President Punch says "a lot of them don't want to do it and worry about starting early"

    Trainer Kahlefeldt says “I think it’s a great move, but I don’t think it will get a lot more – it will get a few more horses but it won’t be the numbers they got years ago.

    “Foals are being born later and people are setting them for the bigger group ones.

    “People get theit horses ready for Bathurst and then there is a flow on to the Breeders Challenge, APG and Breeders Crown.”

    Kahlefeldt would like to see the date moved to be a lead up race for Bathurst’s two-year-old features, however changing the date isn’t being considered by the club.

    http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/st...ash-injection/

    Paul is actually one of the strongest supporters of the Plate and has had multiple runners in the heats a few times over the years. So if Paul is a supporter of the Plate but even he wants it pushed back because of Bathurst imagine how many other trainers are out there who would support the Breeders Plate if it was pushed back. The likes of Stephen Harris, Matt Harris, Trevor White, David Kennedy the list goes on.

  6. #26
    Senior Member 3YO Gtrain has a spectacular aura about Gtrain's Avatar
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    I know the club did not want to clash with Junee. Tried their best to avoid it. They never wanted a change of date. The shortened two year old season and HRNSW forced it upon them and that will have ramifications for years to come. The true effect won't be known for five years. People will breed later, I know I'm still considering getting one in foal now because it won't matter. Previously I'd never breed now.

    As for setting the horses for group ones, that's everyone's pipe dream. But should the 2yo season be structured so one horse can flow through it and win everything? Is having regional series with large financial benefits a bad thing? I don't think so. And I think here is where our opinion differs. I dread the day when Tritons or the like bring their teams of imported kiwis and spank everyone, going around at $1.20. D Jack may have one going around at $1.20 this year though, I'm aware of that! Traditionally the Breeders Plate provides a fantastic performance punting spectacle. Does it matter so much that there is only two heats? I do remember watching an interdominion heat with two horses. The final will be a full field, small track, big crowd for $40k. Seems ok by me!
    The $6000 C races don't stand up here in NSW because there is the stigma of 2yos racing that you seem to also buy into. Victoria seem to always be able to get a few C clad races up and going every year. This shortening the season won't fix that problem. All it does is minimize the time frame people have to win their races. A horse can have a small setback and the be forced to miss three months and then bang, 2yo season is done. Foal numbers are the biggest issue. Field sizes across NSW, have been a serious issue over the past few months. Hobby Breeders aren't propping up the foal numbers the way they have in the past, say twenty years ago, and the studs can't turn a profit selling the ones they breed every year.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Leeton Breeders Plate Debate

    Moved from 'Holy database Batman - Foal numbers'
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  8. #28
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrain View Post
    I know the club did not want to clash with Junee. Tried their best to avoid it. They never wanted a change of date. The shortened two year old season and HRNSW forced it upon them and that will have ramifications for years to come. The true effect won't be known for five years. People will breed later, I know I'm still considering getting one in foal now because it won't matter. Previously I'd never breed now.

    As for setting the horses for group ones, that's everyone's pipe dream. But should the 2yo season be structured so one horse can flow through it and win everything? Is having regional series with large financial benefits a bad thing? I don't think so. And I think here is where our opinion differs. I dread the day when Tritons or the like bring their teams of imported kiwis and spank everyone, going around at $1.20. D Jack may have one going around at $1.20 this year though, I'm aware of that! Traditionally the Breeders Plate provides a fantastic performance punting spectacle. Does it matter so much that there is only two heats? I do remember watching an interdominion heat with two horses. The final will be a full field, small track, big crowd for $40k. Seems ok by me!
    The $6000 C races don't stand up here in NSW because there is the stigma of 2yos racing that you seem to also buy into. Victoria seem to always be able to get a few C clad races up and going every year. This shortening the season won't fix that problem. All it does is minimize the time frame people have to win their races. A horse can have a small setback and the be forced to miss three months and then bang, 2yo season is done. Foal numbers are the biggest issue. Field sizes across NSW, have been a serious issue over the past few months. Hobby Breeders aren't propping up the foal numbers the way they have in the past, say twenty years ago, and the studs can't turn a profit selling the ones they breed every year.
    Whether you and I agree with the stigma doesn't matter. What matters is the stigma is there and that is why the Leeton Breeders Plate staged in December doesn't attract many runners.
    As I said in my first post, foal numbers is an issue for the sport in general, but for the Leeton Breeders Plate specifically the issue is the time of year.

  9. #29
    Senior Member 3YO Gtrain has a spectacular aura about Gtrain's Avatar
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    The question I always ask is why is it that Harness people think that racing 2yos at this time of year wrecks them, at the same time we see the magic millions carnival for the Thoroughbreds.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year trish will become famous soon enough
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    Look at this & make up your own mind.
    Last edited by trish; 12-24-2016 at 08:03 PM. Reason: spelling

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