NSW grading....becoming a joke

[p plater]

Have a look at this race this Saturday night

Race 2 TAB.COM.AU PACE 5:52 PM Pacers. non winners $12500 in last 4 starts & no better than M2. Also eligible M3 which have not won $8500 in their last 4 starts. Also eligible M4+ which have not won $2000 in their last 4 starts. RBD. Prizemoney: $12,240 1609 METRES FIRST4, TRIFECTA, QUINELLA, EXACTA MOBILE START



Restricts M2 horses with winning form (winning $12,500 last 4 starts) then opens it up to M3's plus M4's + and you get a final field consisting of M1 to M12.
To add insult to the M2s they made it a RBD.

What a joke.....Shane, how do you place a horse under these conditions?

[p plater]

Shane, thanks for your input. It sounds like horses are being moved to other States where the trainer can place the horse, this was an art by some in the past.
Under this new system,you as a trainer have no say where you nominations finish up, as highlighted in the opening of this thread.

I see they are at it again next Tuesday in the last race, a front of C5 to C9 (which is to big imo) then open to C10 or better with conditions. Result a race for C5 to a whopping C23. Field of 10.

A closer look and there is 2 races front C2/3 with C4/5 with conditions but only 7 starters in each. No each way.
Why not put the 2 C5 runners from the last into the C2/3 races and have 3 races with 8 starters.

[p plater]

Have a look at this race this Saturday night

Race 2 TAB.COM.AU PACE 5:52 PM Pacers. non winners $12500 in last 4 starts & no better than M2. Also eligible M3 which have not won $8500 in their last 4 starts. Also eligible M4+ which have not won $2000 in their last 4 starts. RBD. Prizemoney: $12,240 1609 METRES FIRST4, TRIFECTA, QUINELLA, EXACTA MOBILE START



Restricts M2 horses with winning form (winning $12,500 last 4 starts) then opens it up to M3's plus M4's + and you get a final field consisting of M1 to M12.
To add insult to the M2s they made it a RBD.

What a joke.....Shane, how do you place a horse under these conditions?

And the winners is GAIUS CAESAR a M8

[p plater]

I am sorry if I broke the rules with my last entry, which was deleted.
Let me say that any discussion on my thoughts in this matter or others who wish to set me straight on the reasons this type of grading decisions are so great, please do it on this forum for all to see.

[p plater]

I have not made a comment for some time on this topic but I feel another stupid grading has been made next Saturday night at Menangle.
Race 3 a heat of the M1 to M2 with conditions.
There on the new 2nd row sits Monifieth a M9
A quick look at his last 9 starts show 8 Group 3 starts for 3 wins and a 2nd plus a Listed Classic start. Total prizemoney for the 9 starts $ 60,800.

[DRUIDRACING]

Hi Bailey ...question how would you grade horses...........I think there is no grading system that will appease all participants....It must be hard to place horses as my trainer found out. We only have a small team and with work restrictions we can only go racing when things are organised. We went to the races on 3 occasions and the races only ever suited one of the horses, however to get race fitness we had to race and try and find races that suited the others. I like to see my horses race and it cost $$$ i cant wait 4 weeks to find a suitable race. one horse who won his first race was then to get a run was placed in a R1 and better race and got to race a c4 and ran last as expected went good tho 58.6 last half. the horse won a Mo just recently. What can we do ???

[p plater]

Steven, the example of your horse a R1 racing a C4 is the problem. Your trainer would not pick that race but the handicappers are only worried about field sizes and change the conditions to suit. Your trainer at the time of nomination has no idea this will happen, he would expect your horse to race other R1's to maybe R2's.
As you say "your can't wait 4 weeks for a suitable race" your expenses are weekly. The handicappers don't care about that, no concern for you to be able to cover your costs in a winnable race, just change the conditions so the race has more starters eg also R3 or better than have not won $6000 in last 4 starts...your trainer didn't know that.
Lack of numbers has caused this but if they persist they will have owners like you leave the sport and buy a greyhound.
Victoria don't have this problem, their program clearly states the grades.
Nominate in NSW and you have R0 or better...C2 or better....M1 or better and you play lotto each week. Take race 7 at Menangle this Saturday night a C3-C5 with added conditions, now race includes 4 horse C6 to C10. The owners of the C3's would be wild....but the handicappers don't care because they made it PDC.
They must restrict the spread to 2 grades....it might cause some pain in small fields for a short time but owners and trainers will come back.
Advertise races for horses that have not won $000 in last 5 starts at least everyone involved knows the condition on nomination

[Messenger]

Am I right in thinking that this system was supposed to be about reducing the number of long odds on faves? And if so, has that happened?
(I much prefer the Vic system where YOU pretty much determine what race you are in)

[Sofoulis]

I agree with you on this matter Bailey. Whilst we may own the horse and the trainer train the horse - we do not have much control about what types of races the horse competes in. I believe the rationale behind the handicappers looking to bolster field sizes is sound in their mind (bigger fields with less odds-on favourites = higher turnover = more funds for the industry), but unfortunately, it isn't as simple as this. Bigger field sizes + lack of control over racing = another great reason NOT to own a horse = less horses = reduced fields or races = lower turnover = vicious downward spiral.


If they want higher numbers, try:
1. stop slogging importers with an "import fee" (which is an illegal tax in my view anyway given free trade arrangement with NZ)
2. allowing the use of whatever products they permit in the US (my limited understanding suggests the US allows medication to be used to assist bleeders? - I could be wrong on this, but if it is right, wouldn't this extend the racing life of our horse population?)
3. stop advertising to the converted and hit mainstream so NEW people are involved.
4. consider significantly changing the prize-money allocations. The difference between restricted, country, metro and group race stakes is absolutely ridiculous in my view.

[p plater]

Am I right in thinking that this system was supposed to be about reducing the number of long odds on faves? And if so, has that happened?
(I much prefer the Vic system where YOU pretty much determine what race you are in)

That was the theory Kev, it hasn't worked so now they want 12 horse fields to increase turnover.

The Vic system is much better and well supported....compare that to the up coming Penrith program....if you have a C2 who will you race?

Race programme

PENRITH Thursday 24 September 2015 (Night meeting)

Nominations close: 9:30 AM Monday 21 September 2015 Acceptances: 1:30 PM Monday 21 September 2015 Race fields available: 4:00 PM Monday 21 September 2015 Search Programmes Race code Start Race name Total Stakes Class Metres
Draw Other conditions PEC24091501 MS THREE YEAR OLD PACE $5,100 3YO,
3C0 Only. ,
1720
PBD/WOE NO CONCESSION CLAIMS PEC24091502 MS C0 PACE $5,100 3YO+,
C0 Only. ,
1720
PBD/LTW NO CONCESSION CLAIMS PEC24091503 MS C1 PACE $5,100 C1 Only. ,
1720
PBD/SEX
PEC24091504 MS C0 & BETTER PACE $5,100 C0 Or Better. ,
2125
DIVIDED CONDITIONS The HRNSW Handicapping Panel will frame race conditions and select race fields from the nominations received. PEC24091505 MS CLAIMING PACE $5,100 Claim not exceeding 5000.00,
2125
PBD/$L4 NO CONCESSION CLAIMS