Goodbye Lance

[Danno]

Aspects of this thread remind me of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4smgV...eature=related
Nothing quite like a Cello Player in a Marching Band.

Brilliant deployment of the "funny hat " routine Jamie.

[Itisi]

Wasn't this thread about Lance walking away from the sport if SU lost the inter final ? It looks like it could be a while before he walks anywhere ! I'm surprized that the word "karma" hasn't come up yet !
But on a serious note I wish him a speedy recovery.

Just thinking would DMSO help him

[Greg Hando]

As a trainer you are supposed to keep a diary of all treatment's etc for your horse and may be asked to produce it at the request of the steward's although i have never heard of this being asked for to check.

[triplev123]

Brilliant deployment of the "funny hat " routine Jamie.

[VVV] Seeking to follow in the footsteps of my comedic idol Danno.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKblP3_EkM0

[Flashing Red]

Pain relief doesn't improve performance. It merely allows peak performance to occur.
It only allows for ability to be realised, it doesn't increase ability.

I 100% agree.

I have raced in a jurisdiction where DMSO is not prohibited at all. I drenched it, injected it, used it topically AT THE RACES (which was within the rules) and I will tell you now, it did not make a stitch of difference to my horse's performance and I tried it on several. I now almost soley only use it when sweating legs...

[Flashing Red]

It didn't increase the horses ultimate potential. It did not enhance performance - it only allowed potential to be realised.
If that is a performance enhancer than so is water and food. Without water and food you may only race at say 25% but with it you can race at 100%. So are water and food performance enhancers too?
Something that makes the horse go to 101% is a performance enhancer.
A horse could be given something on the Tuesday, that then allows it to race on Saturday. By the Saturday it is out of its system but do we do midweek testing at stables for drugs that allowed horses to reach potential?
No, there are two different classes of drugs - ones you can have at the stables and ones you can't because they are on different levels of the spectrum.


Enhance
1. To make greater, as in value, beauty, or effectiveness; augment.
2. To provide with improved, advanced, or sophisticated features

Painkillers do not make a horse greater or improve a horse. They merely allow the horses features to be met, not advanced.

Edit: I'm actually knocked up on painkillers right now with Swimmers ear and the flu. I don't think Ian Thorpe is going to be worried about me on my painkillers!

Love your work

[Flashing Red]

Brenno, that food and water analogy won't stand up mate, food and water are essential to life, therapeutic drugs are not.

Without getting into a debate, because I don't, but an example of a non-essential aspect of racing that is allowed and would no doubt help performance is items such as shoeing. You will improve a horse (well probably 90%) by racing it with shoes. Only to their potential, not over. A horse racing on hay only for the most part would not race as good as a horse racing on grain and vitamins, minerals and electrolytes. Heck, jogging and fast working a horse mid week will mean it will peform better than one that spent 24 hours a day grazing in a paddock. IMHO a line needs to be drawn and it has - it is just too strict.

Wait till they start going 1:52 in every race at Menangle... perhaps the strict stance on theraputic substances will be eased a little then. The horses won't be lasting long otherwise....

[triplev123]

(1) i really don't think the hard working, dedicated albiet often frustrated people administering our sport would, in the slightest, appreciate your desciption of them.

[vvv] i can guarentee you that amongst their number, those who have any idea at all with regard to this subject are few and far between.

(2) if it's in the "too hard basket", would this not mean the afformentioned administarors have looked at changing the rules on some therapeutic drugs but, as yet, cannot come up with a plan that works in a practicle way that the industry/sports participants can cope with?

[vvv] perhaps you're right. Despite such lists being freely available in other jurisdictions in the us & can publishing a simple list of thresholds and withdrawl times for various substances is probably beyond them.

(3) until it can be guaranteed that every time each horse races it is carrying the exact same doses of regulated drugs, then consistent form cannot be assured. Many of these drugs need to be administered 4 to 5 hours in advance of competition. In order for that to happen then each horse using regulated drugs needs to go to the track 4 to 5 hours before it's race. This may work at the meadowlands where the majority of the runners are stabled on site but in the land of oz where we are spread out over vast distances, the majority of horses are trained at private establishments and our game would not survive without hobby trainers, (who have a job to tend to) no wonder it's in the too hard basket.

[vvv] mate, we're now sending the best of today's horses down the road in 1:52's and subs at menangle and they're doing it week in week out and that's only going to ramp up in the next 12 months-2yrs+.

They're not going around richmond in 2:20 or the maitland showgrounds in 2:12, we're not in kansas anymore toto.

Just how long do you think we can reasonably expect them to physically hold together without a re-think of the therapeutic substances aspect of the current treatment rules?

a general burying heads in the sand & simply hoping it will all go away is not going to get it done.

as i've said many times before, what in blue blazes is there that's stopping us having on course vet administered lasix etc?

designated on course arrival 4hrs prior, lasix given by hrnsw vet.
all silent, all done. Other substances such as bute etc. would all placed on a very widely & very well publicised threshold basis ala tc02's.

in a somewhat timely manner for this subject/thread i see billy muscat's just scored a bute positive.
i will bet you london to a brick that whatever amount was in the horse, it was not at a level which was pharmacologically active. The bute test is bullshit, imo. It picks up trace amounts that do not add up to a knob of goat shit as far as their anti-inflamatory ability is concerned...the stuff is as good as water from the dam after about 12hrs and yet old mate's going to get grilled over it, regardless.
that's mindless. That's draconian. There has to be a better way.

vvv

[teecee]

Without getting into a debate, because I don't, but an example of a non-essential aspect of racing that is allowed and would no doubt help performance is items such as shoeing. You will improve a horse (well probably 90%) by racing it with shoes. Only to their potential, not over. A horse racing on hay only for the most part would not race as good as a horse racing on grain and vitamins, minerals and electrolytes. Heck, jogging and fast working a horse mid week will mean it will peform better than one that spent 24 hours a day grazing in a paddock. IMHO a line needs to be drawn and it has - it is just too strict.

Wait till they start going 1:52 in every race at Menangle... perhaps the strict stance on theraputic substances will be eased a little then. The horses won't be lasting long otherwise....

Nah Nah Nah..they can't do that then.
We are relying on your horses falling over to maintain our export industry...Horses that is!!!

[Danno]

vvv

I reckon you might have "missed the point" somewhat Jamie,or are you saying it should gloves off/open slather? The vast majority of people in this game want a level playing field and they'd like to think to the rules and the administration are working to assure this.

As i said in my earlier post if all horses arriving on course 4/5 hours before competition was a workable solution and regulated drugs administered then I'm sure everyone would be fine with that....everyone that could still participate that is.

I'll repeat myself for your benefit. The vast distances we are spread out over in Australia, combined with a large percentage of horses trained by hobbyists make on course arrival 4/5 hours before competition prohibitive. The recently repealed two hour limit caused many people to have their racing options restricted and hence reduced fields. What sort of affect do you reckon 4 to 5 hours is going to have?

It's one thing to quote whats fine in "other racing jurisdictions" but quite another to come up with workable solutions.

One thing that really annoys me is people who frequently whinge but seldom provide solutions, whingeing is cheap and easy.... solutions are are a tad harder to do.

Do us all a favour and conduct a little survey of your own, ask a reasonable cross section of trainers how they would cope with on course arrival times of 4 to 5 hours pre-competition.

If you do you might get an understanding of how the people who provide the racing product are getting on and how they reckon they might handle your "solution" in todays world!