Distances

[David Summers]

David, not over 3009m but this weekend a 2300m stand for trotters with 16 runners

Thanks for the "heads up" Fred. Look forward to it. Good calling this weekend.

[Daryl New]

Yes, whatever the distance, I feel that they should have a distance longer than 2300m and hold 1-2 races at this distance at every meeting. I think that the mile races should be the most prominant, but also have 2300m and the longer distances too...

Rumours Rumours Rumours The timing device has been installed at the 2400m mark, there is a trial tomorrow over that distance. as far as other distances, we should be looking at 3000m (starting at the 200m ) for both stand and mobile. I ca hear you already Jaimie but we need to cater to all tyles of horses and afterall there is that many Kiwis over here they are used to the stand.

[doinmabest]

Daryl,
I am positive the Oaks and Derby will be run at the Blue Riband Distance of 2400m
Definately not Rumour!

[Danno]

Rumours Rumours Rumours The timing device has been installed at the 2400m mark, there is a trial tomorrow over that distance. as far as other distances, we should be looking at 3000m (starting at the 200m ) for both stand and mobile. I ca hear you already Jaimie but we need to cater to all tyles of horses and afterall there is that many Kiwis over here they are used to the stand.

G'day Daryl,
I know I'm going to get caned for this but I honestly believe we need to re-introduce more standing start racing here in NSW. I know it's unpalateable to commercial breeders because of the racetime factor, but wouldn't you think a horses overall race performances and earnings would be of more consideration than a time? Particularly now when we have Menangle, where the most average of horses can post impressive sounding miles, which make times achieved at other tracks seem slow? They all can't race at menangle every week.

That aside, some horses are better placed from the stand and hence give the poor old owners another avenue of getting some additional return on their investment and I know I sound like a broken record, but I'll say it again and again...if nobody cares about the owners, one day the owners won't be there to pay the bills to produce the racing product.
I have been in this game for over forty years and the poor long suffering owners are still getting the rough end of the pineapple. They are without any doubt the most neglected and under represented group of people in this game but are responsible for the purchase and maintenance of the racing product!!! Un-bloody-believable!

I know some people are gunna bring out the " horses missing the kick" story but I reckon thats a lame arguement, look at the number of horses that miss the kick in mobiles, and what about the horses that are beaten before the start because of the barrier draw?

Anyway I hope that opens up some debate, cos I reckon the wrong thing has been going on for too long, standing starts should make up 50% of races at ALL levels.

Cheers,

Dan

[Itisi]

I think it has a lot to do with the turnover on stand races not as good as mobile starts, maybe go the walk up start,less interference.

[Danno]

I think it has a lot to do with the turnover on stand races not as good as mobile starts, maybe go the walk up start,less interference.

G'day Mick,
I'm not sure what the current situation is with regards to turnover on stands in NSW or for that matter elsewhere, I would reckon in jurisdictions where stands are still common, like Victoria and NZ there wouldn't be a significant difference either way, as the punters would take them in their stride, as would the the horses and horsemen.
I might try and do some home work on that aspect and if anyone can help with short cuts to info that'd be appreciated.

Having said that I wouldn't close my mind to other methods as you mentioned like walk-up starts, at least the barrier draw would not have the same degree of impact it has now and owners get other options.

[Danno]

Yes Adam,
I was dissappointed to see they didn't stand up, there were some people on this forum bagging them for even being programmed. I had a mare in work at the time that may have been well placed but she went amiss...

I hope they continue to be programmed rather than discarded altogether, people will eventually realise the potential, all they need to do is spend some time educating their horses to the stand, get Qu'd and it's another option.

Newcastle were programming stands a bit here and there and have for the past few years run the "Hawkesbury to Hunter" stand heats and final series which has been a huge success.

Thanks for the info about the turnover and it doesn't surprise me, particularly the usual price range of the favourites, as we do seem to be seeing a big run in "shorties" at the moment and thats not good for the game.

Cheers,

Dan

[broncobrad]

Dan I can see your point, and you give valid reasons why standing starts still have a place in 2012. If trainers brought there well drilled charges to the races week in/week out and they stepped faultlessly I would agree with you. I know a bloke up here who says "Ya know the best place for a trotter"? Nah. "In a greyhounds guts".

And everytime you see those starts where it looks like someone has just farted and everyone runs in a different direction to escape the stench it validates his arguement. And I hate his arguement because what happens is indefendable in this day and age when you have to protect the punter. No punter, no industry.

[Danno]

Dan I can see your point, and you give valid reasons why standing starts still have a place in 2012. If trainers brought there well drilled charges to the races week in/week out and they stepped faultlessly I would agree with you. I know a bloke up here who says "Ya know the best place for a trotter"? Nah. "In a greyhounds guts".

And everytime you see those starts where it looks like someone has just farted and everyone runs in a different direction to escape the stench it validates his arguement. And I hate his arguement because what happens is indefendable in this day and age when you have to protect the punter. No punter, no industry.

I hear what you're saying Brad, but there are people who say that sort of crap everywhere,
" The trotters all get stuck on the fence" the peolple who were saying this ten years ago still say it despite passing lanes constucted at many tracks.
" the trotting races take too long" these same people back gallops races of all distances.

What I'm saying is these people are not about to change their mind so they're not gunna punt on the trots anyway, are they?

Mate I squirm when I see a shitty start too, but the more horses and people are doing it, the better they'll get, when I was a lad, standing starts were just about all we had. the occasional mobile, but they were mainly at HP. The standing starts were almost problem free, infact I would wager there are more horses missing the start in mobiles these days than there were horses missing the start in stands back then. Exposure mate, and nobody gets it till it's available.

I know we need punters Brad, but we need owners too and I see the stands or a variation like walk ups as a means of assisting the owners to get a return and stay in the game.

Cheers,

Dan

[Daryl New]

Dan,

I recently worked with the Penrith Club to try and get standing start events up and running of a Thursday night.

They programmed races in January and February for out of form horses (not won $2,000 in their last 3 starts) up to C2, later changed to no better than M0 to make the eligible pool bigger after the lower grade attracted no interest.

Handicap marks are based on $ won last 3 starts, therefore a terribly out of form C2 (or M0 as it stands now) would be off the front.

They were all about providing variety for horses that had been struggling to earn in mobile start events in a race where they would have been in against horses of equal ability.

The races were promoted from early December through personal emails to the stakeholder email database, official notices on harness.org.au and in Trotguide.

http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=17452

Nothing else could have been done to get them up and running.

To date none of them have been run due to a lack of nominations.

Next weeks programmed event is as follows:

PEC23021212SSCONDITIONED STANDING START$4,500 No Restriction,
2525
RBD
For horses assessed no better than M0 which have not won more than $2, 000 in their last 3 starts. FT-$0-$500 last 3 starts, 10m-$501- $1, 000 last 3 starts, 20m-$1, 001-$1, 500 last 3 starts, 30m-$1, 501-$2, 000 last 3 starts.
NO CONCESSION CLAIMS

These same races were programmed in QLD when I was the Handicapper up there, they were well patronised, produced predominately $2.50 to $5.00 favourites and on many occasions $20-$50 chances won the races.

BTW, stands hold their own with mobile races on most occasions due to the extended lead in time (exposure) the race gets because it takes longer to get them away.

Cheers,

Adam.

Adam the original conditions where not open enough, the new conditions are far more appropriate and i will support them. Lets get even more progressive and maybe even go down the path of the trotters and spread the prizemoney similarly