Isn't the ATC akin to the NSWHRC while Racing NSW is akin to HRNSW. Point being that just as NSWHRC spends money on Menangle, ATC spends money on the city clubs.Originally Posted by dizzy
[VVV] You forgot the part about HRNSW having sunk more than enough $ into the place to keep it afloat already. The place is like Sarah Beeny's restoration of Rise Hall...sans Sarah Beeny's income stream. It is a money pit and should be cut loose forthwith.
Yes Brenno but the real point is money should be spent where it will return the most to the industry. I doubt the ATC would ever consider selling Randwick but then they cant anyway as it is crown land
Jamie I am not part of Bankstown's inner sanctum I merely use the place to obtain my daily fix of equine activity. Whilst Bankstowns finacial problems of recent years are well known I do not know how much or indeed if HRNSW has sunk any additional money above and beyond anywhere else into Bankstown. Certainly many a meeting took place between HRNSW and the club but if they actually kicked in extra cash I cant tell you. Certainly at least 2 private benefactors have, one of which is a major sponsor of harness racing at more then one track across the state and he is very keen that Bankstown remain, you wouldn't want to go losing sponsors for the industry now would you Jamie.
As for income streams Bankstown makes over $500,000 a year for the industry from the markets, la luna longe, bike show , Eid festival and other activities. Before the falling out with the other club there was another 250K for each of the four years before now but the other club still do put in $50K for the Treur-there is certainly a lesson to be learned there.
Personally my own contribution to the industry whilst based at Bankstown Jamie, thanks to a very generous employer also based at Bankstown, now exceeds the average annual australian wage annually and I am not top of the list here. I can think of six stables here who's connections contribute more then, and in some cases very significantly more then, that to the industry annually, and I'm not including Emeilio, he has a home, not a stable here. So Jamie I think if you add together all the paperclips, shoeing nails, functions,turnover etc etc etc that Bankstown still contributes to the industry you have an amount easily in the range of 2 to 3 million dollars annually so unless you have some real ammunition for your arguement beyond your spite for Bankstown its time for you to put your cue in the rack on the subject of closing Bankstown down.
Last edited by teecee; 07-07-2012 at 06:55 PM.
Mango assuming that any problems that may exist can be resolved with local/state government and given our very limited finacial resources for the project then my suggestion would be to upgrade the track at Fairfield. It's not freehold but leasehold that should be able to be negotitated for a considerable length of time as the site cannot be sold by council. It is about 10 minutes south west of the Parramatta CDB which is scheduled for a vast upgrade in terms of residential and retail commercial deveopment along what is now auto alley.It's also about 5 to 7 minutes from the M7 allowing easy access. It is in an existing residential (which may be a problem) area which is well established and no longer mortage belt. The population is largely Asian who are traditionally very fond of betting activities.
As to Menangle why do you think the CEO has said that Sydney needs a 1000m track, not Sydney needs more racing at Menangle? Its because as CEO the finacial health of the industry buck stops with him. I'm sure Mango you've read many a story on the net and the trotguide from participants about how great the racing at Menangle is, but have you read one yet from a punter who has said how great the punting at Menangle is? Reading between the lines I would say Sam, as it is his job to, has identified that Menangle is an underperforming asset for the industry in regards to the returns it provides finacially to the industry for what is invested there.
Funny you should liken Menangle to the Meadowlands, you know that the Meadowlands had been finacially unviable for years before going officially broke last year when the New Jersey State Govenor Chris Christie withdrew the subsidies the government had been providing from Atlantic City casino revenues for years don't you?
For want of a better term the Meadowlands is currently in a transition phase, ownership has been taken over by Jeff Gural representing 100 million dollars of venture capital which sounds great doesn't it. There are changes, demolished old stand, plans for new stand etc, at the Meadowlands and Jeff is trying very hard to improve the harness racing product at the Meadowlands. But the track and the racing is not the real prize for these guys, a casino license is. At present the only place in New Jersey that gaming takes place is in Atlantic City and Govenor Christie wants to keep it that way. Christie is hoping that the latest multi billion dollar resort style gaming venue to open in Atlantic City brings in the sufficient cash to prevent the state from going broke, Gural and his followers are banking on that it won't and the New Jersey state legislator will then open up gaming licenses in the rest of New Jersey and that they (Gural) will have the prime position for one, half an hour from New York City itself and in the middle of 19million people, and 3 airports. Jamie Packer is not the only Casino entrepreneur that knows there are 300 million middle class chinese about to unleash their spending power on the western world and the thing they like to do most is gamble. If they get the licence then expect to see the real money (billions) flow at the Meadowlands and the track shrink as harness racing becomes just a cog in the entertainment and gaming business that will be built there. If no casino license is forth coming then expect to see both Jeff Gural and his investors and the Meadowlands dissappear.
Punters are our primary income source and yes they will more or less bet anywhere but they have there favourite places too, but along with punters Mango we need owners and these, unlike punters, won't be found just anywhere, they have to get something more for their investment then just prizemoney-remember Jamie previously in this thread, colours in hand shouting loudly "I WANT RECOGNITION", well he's not the only owner who does. So tracks needs to be built somewhere where that need is met too, and that means in close proximty to population centres and with facilities that are attractive to people. Those facilities then need to be maintained so that means tracks need other income streams too so that too means tracks need to be close to people. The larger the population centre then the more people you have to draw from into using the facilities and hopefully become involved in harness racing.
The other part of the equation Mango is political support, politicians on either side of the fence won't support race clubs that think they are just there to provide a product to wager on, they want to see racing/clubs provide something more to their communities and therefore the polly's re election campaign. I added the bit about the re election campaign but it was Peter McGuran the former federal minister for agriculture during EI amongst many other things in the racing industry who said the rest. He also said there are 120 TB racing clubs in NSW and 108 tracks so I've filed that away for the next trivia night I attend!
The short answer is Mango is that there isn't a short answer but the time has come when some smart descisions need to be made to not just turn around the industry but set it up for the future.
Last edited by dizzy; 07-05-2012 at 09:43 PM.
vvvjamie i am not part of bankstown's inner sanctum i merely use the place to obtain my daily fix of equine activity.
[vvv] that's a genuine win/win situation.
whilst bankstowns finacial problems of recent years are well known i do not know how much or indeed if hrnsw has sunk any additional money above and beyond anywhere else into bankstown. Certainly many a meeting took place between hrnsw and the club but if they actually kicked in extra cash i cant tell you.
[vvv] i can and yes they have. Perhaps a discreet inquiry as to the destination of the funds due to the club as part of the race fields legislation windfall might clarify the picture. It doesn't take hercules poirot to work out that most if not all of it will go towards repaying hrnsw for the $ they've periodically kicked into the tin to keep the place afloat.
certainly at least 2 private benefactors have, one of which is a major sponsor of harness racing at more then one track across the state and he is very keen that bankstown remain, you wouldn't want to go losing sponsors for the industry now would you jamie.
[vvv] i guess you're talking of colin mcdowell. He's a good bloke, he loves the sport, may well get very vocal & threaten to pull his sponsorship & leave the industry if bankstown were to be closed however that's no different to the comments that came out of the fairfield devotees when that track was closed. Colin watts, another good bloke, said something along those lines about Fairfield...it was in trotguide, i remember it very clearly, but like the big a, he loves the sport to too much to do that, as did his dad & as do his sons.
as for income streams bankstown makes over $500,000 a year for the industry from the markets, la luna longe, bike show , eid festival and other activities. Before the falling out with the other club there was another 250k for each of the four years before now but the other club still do put in $50k for the treur-there is certainly a lesson to be learned there.
[vvv] lord, i wish the pitches i got when i was playing baseball were such free hits. If there's 500k going through the tills out there may i suggest someone puts in a petty cash slip and gets the water truck serviced prior to the 2013 truer?
personally my own contribution to the industry whilst based at bankstown jamie, thanks to a very generous employer also based at bankstown, now exceeds the average annual australian wage annually and i am not top of the list here.
[vvv] good for you dot, i really mean that. I also live in fear of being identified as a passenger in a light aircraft that's intending to land at bankstown, for it would not take much to be re-directed to the watery expanses of the george's river.
i can think of six stables here who's connections contribute more then, and in some cases very significantly more then, that to the industry annually, and i'm not including emeilio, he has a home, not a stable here.
[vvv] that merely confirms what many including myself have long suspected. Emilio is as mad as a wheel.
so jamie i think if you add together all the paperclips, shoeing nails, functions,turnover etc etc etc that bankstown still contributes to the industry you have an amount easily in the range of 2 to 3 million dollars annually so unless you have some real ammunition for your arguement beyond your spite for bankstown its time for you to put your cue in the rack on the subject of closing bankstown down.
[vvv]...and i'm mother theresa.
Last edited by teecee; 07-07-2012 at 07:01 PM. Reason: spelling
The d.a application will be before the next council meeting,the land will be rented off the council,$5+ million for the set up and council will assist with loan's etc to the club. Harnes racing bring's in approximately $3 million annually and support's 90 + job's. It was on tonight's local WIN new's
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
I had an aquaintance go to Bathurst during March this year and he couldnt get accomodation in the middle of the week. The Crown would have been the main reason, that carnival really is a credit to Bathurst and would help massively with influencing the council.
[VVV] Great to hear it is progressing Greg. Bathurst Council have long been supportive of anything to do with Harness Racing. They're well aware of how much $ it kicks into the local economy each year. On top of that, how about Gold Crowns & Tiaras conducted on a brand new 1000m track. Fantastic. Onwards & upwards.
Good news Greg, I hope the application proceeds smoothly and rapidly
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