[QUOTE=mark diegutis;22268]Hi Jaimie . Its hard to put up a good argument when those who control this forum are those who have the strongest opinions . Those who delete others posts when the ballance of opinion turns against them . You say you resent the inference . Well , no one knows what that means now , but if thats the case don't put yourself in a position where the bulk of your arguments would point to the assumption that urks you .
For those who dont know what it means, it means this...Posts are not deleted when the balance of opinion turns against them. Posts are deleted when the discussion of an issue becomes a personal attack on the views or opinions which differ. Having differing opinions is okay here but attacking others who have differing views in a personal manner is not for this forum.
[QUOTE=teecee;22270]Thanks Tony . Thats fair enough . I apologize to Jaimie . Personally , I think he'd be a pretty good bloke . I'll punish myself with 3 months disqualification from the forum . See ya later . P.S Tony can you allow Trish an account under her own name using this IP address . ThanksOriginally Posted by mark diegutis
[QUOTE=mark diegutis;22272]Mark
Given part of the tone of this discussion on prohibited substance cheats being about disqualified persons continuing under another family member unchecked. Are you not asking for the same dispensation, funny I got the drift you were against that as a matter of principle.
[QUOTE=mark diegutis;22272]
[VVV} Mark, there's absolutely no need to do that. None at all.
What you do need to do however is to get your head around the fact that you and I are coming at this subject from obviously two very different but at the same time two very well intentioned angles. I'd no more give something to a horse I even remotely thought might harm it than I would attempt to fly to the moon in a cast-iron bathtub.
That being said, I object just as strongly if not more so to the present IMO prehistoric & verging upon draconian view of the use and race day detection of minute amounts of the metabolites of a range of genuine equine therapeutics.
It burns me no end that technology exists which would allow us to establish, institute and test for race day thresholds (ala TCO2's) for a designated list of accepted equine therapeutic substances & yet our Administrators/Regulators inexplicably continue to drag their feet or continue to place it in the too hard basket.
This creates a situation where genuine, honest horsemen and women with only the very best of care and welfare intentions for horses in their stable will continue to fall foul of positive tests called on the metabolites of therapeutic substances that whilst present are able to be detected in amounts that are so infinitesimally small that they could be considered in no reasonable way, shape or form to be pharmacologically active.
That situation of course then has very grave implications for the unfair and unreasonable removal of a Trainer's capacity to/right earn an income, something which is in and of itself nothing short of disgraceful. That's the windmill I'm tilting at here.
there are always different ways to cheat with drugs it will always be here imo
[QUOTE=mark diegutis;22272]Whilst your perceived need to punish yourself is an issue for you, I have to say I don't agree. I am not seeking to exclude people from any side of the debate. I dont ban people from having considered opinions on debated issues. I am not trying to stifle opinion relevant to the debated issue. Rather my post is not aimed at you personally nor for that matter at only those whose posts have been deleted. It is an advisory to all posters to this thread. Some have taken the hint from previous postings whilst others have not. This thread has at last count some 170 posts. Whilst the debate is often forceful and polarising much of it is not well researched or substantiated IMO. It is fine to have an opinion and express it here as robustly as you must but when it is not researched nor substantiated it is just that...opinion.
As a trainer currently in the middle of a rather fluid situation here in NZ with what is or is not , contains or does not, prohibited substances, issues that suggest some of the practical issues without the dramatics like...
boxing my horse upto 60 hours prior to racing.
Replacing $10,000 worth of treated post and rail
Researching any additives to determine what's really in them.
Filtering my chaff of all weed and foreign matter.
Consider building a quarantine station for my sick, out of training horses so my very trusted vet can prescribe for their best interests.
A few additional things I can do to ensure my horses race drug free.!!!!
But then I might forget to wash down the tie up stall chains and my horse returns a positive to DMSO contaminated by a previous stallholder!!!
In the eyes and minds of some here I would be a cheat or in the words of others something lower than human.
There are many dubious posts on this thread which forcefully push a point of view by rubbishing the alternative view without substantiation. These remain only to provide continuity to the legitimate discussion. For me the 3 posts which I have deleted from this thread by me take this stance an unnecessary step further and offer a negative or nil value to the discussion. That strategy is one of a personal attack on a poster claiming their view is ."because you are, support, part of"....
Again my request to stick to the issue being debated. Leave your opinion of those offering you a debate out of the equation.
To my knowledge there has never been an issue with Trish using your IP address or computer for her own account.
The forum only has issues with members using multiple fake identities. IP addresses and computers is but one way to track these people.
Boldonone,Testosterone,so yesterday,I want some of whatever Ye Shewin's (supposedly)on.Talk about rocket fuel.
Tony, I'm not sure that the majority of posts here were about accidental contamination of horses, but rather more about the deliberate dosing of performance enhancing drugs ie: steroid overages in racing horses etc.
However some of your thoughts warrant consideration in a modern training establishment,even though some
would not be wanted by anyone, however some should be discussed.
Why shouldn't a trainer be aware of everything in an ADDITIVE that he may give his horse'?
(After all one trainer in the spotlight at the moment has stated that he 'has never heard of Boldenone')He might just call it 'Equipoise'.
Why not have a separate area (within the stable complex) for horses under restricted Vet treatment ?
Why not ensure clothing and body free of restricted substances before leaving a treatment area.?
Surely these and many other protocols should be the way of the future if we want to ensure our racing integrity.
Last edited by Lethal; 08-01-2012 at 08:44 PM.
Re Ye Shiwen
She got home in 28.9. Faster than the blokes in same race did! Pretty amazing performance. Trained in Qld by an Aussie. He said they (the chinese girls) just want to work harder. I might be wrong but think same bloke who gave up that Schipper girls (that he also coached) secrets to chinese girl he coached last olympics. But then if he on $250k per gold medal from chinese like reported....why not!!!
Just going back to the credibility of Richard Freedman, sitting back at the Sky studios. Following the running of the 2nd at Wyong today when the two Berry boys went across the line locked together, this goose says (and its as close to a quote as I can recall) "You would think Tommy would have leant across to his brother and said to his brother, 'hey ease up Nathan [or words to that effect], my boys have had a stack on this' ". This bloke owns horses, has been part of one of the most successful stables in Australia, has since lost his spot on 2KYs sports breakfast, his $400,000 job with the (old) AJC and now moonlights at Sky. The dribble that pours out of this blokes mouth makes me look like a Rhodes scholar. His attitude to harness and dog meetings is abysmal to boot, much preferring to yap about the next gallop ten minutes away while OUR blokes are scoring up.
Footnote - Tommy did win the race and I had a couple of bob on it.
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