Ballarat Cup

[Flashing Red]

Hi Flashing Red,
Your sentence if you have to cause them a little pain, so be it. And they get looked after so well each and every day. It isn't much of a trade off do you think?
If that was harness racing's line on the use of the whip, IMO it would have a very negative impact on the future popularity of the sport.
The majority of horse people would understand what you wrote as I do, the only problem is that the majority are not horse people and for the sport to grow in the
future the product needs to be as clean and tidy as possible.
I have no problem with the direction racing is heading with the use of the whip and your proposal for the "numbers on the rump" (a la SA style) is great and should be in place
Australia wide lets start making some noise with the help of HarnessLink.

Hi aussiebreno,
It's not about who's in control, it's more to do with getting new participants and getting their dimes.

"If we had a keen vision and feeling of all ordinary human life, it would be like hearing the grass grow and the squirrel's heart beat, and we should die of that roar which lies on the other side of silence. As it is, the best of us walk about well wadded with........."

Re-reading it, a non-horsey person probably wouldn't understood my quote and I guess it can come across a little negative. You are right it can be said in a much better way. You would also think after 3.5 years at uni I could be a little more diplomatic. Thanks for explaining

[Flashing Red]

I reckon it's inevitable one day that whips will be totally banned. Maybe it won't happen for another 50 years ... but I think it will happen eventually. When it does, those horses that don't respond without the use of a whip will struggle. I guess it's a sort of forced evolution of the racing game. It may seem a crazy concept now but the industry will adapt, just as it has with other changes.

I agree this will happen also, and that those horses who do need a lot of encouragement just won't progress. I guess it is inevitable.

[justdoit]

Hi Flashing Red,
Could they program a race that had no whips to be carried?
Do you think they would get entries, or have bonus money for 1,2,3,4 for not carrying a whip.

Hi BenScadden, No whipping-It's heading that way and the stewards not enforcing the rules will make it happen sooner

[triplev123]

One of the most interesting observations about whips and their application with young horses, and more specifically with 2yos, I've ever heard came from what was for me at the time a bit of an unexpected source, namely Michael Doltoff...though when I thought about it afterwards he has had his fair share of good and sometimes very,very good juveniles & what he said makes absolutely perfect sense. He said that if he has to carry a whip on the training track with his youngsters then he takes that to mean they're physically/mentally not ready to go as 2yos and he'd stop right there with them and move on to another horse.

[aussiebreno]

One of the most interesting observations about whips and their application with young horses, and more specifically with 2yos, I've ever heard came from what was for me at the time a bit of an unexpected source, namely Michael Doltoff...though when I thought about it afterwards he has had his fair share of good and sometimes very,very good juveniles & what he said makes absolutely perfect sense. He said that if he has to carry a whip on the training track with his youngsters then he takes that to mean they're physically/mentally not ready to go as 2yos and he'd stop right there with them and move on to another horse.

Exaxtly, he has had some very, very good juveniles. He doesnt stuff around with ones that might only be average - and he has money behind him meaning he can let the average ones have more time. But for the hundreds of bread and butter hobby trainers its a different story would you agree triplev?

[buster]

m doltoff is the biggest basher of a horse going and a sh!t talker...plus the horses aren't in his name due to drug offences....not exactly a role model

[triplev123]

All of that may or may not be the case Buster, you have me at a disadvantage because I don't know the bloke at all, have never spoken to him. Recognise him by sight & that's it. Apparently you know him much better than I do. Nevertheless, what he said about needing a whip to get youngsters to put in on the training track made absolutely perfect sense to me and those words would have made no more sense had they come from the lips of Billy Haughton or Stanley Dancer. The best juveniles don't need their arses cut off in order to produce their best. Instead, they get out there and do it all on their own for the love of it. I'm yet to see a really good 2yo that needed a Samurai in the bike to keep it interested and going forward.

[Don Corleone]

To me a whip is no different than any other peice of gear I have on a horse, it's there as a aid. Like every other peice of gear I have on a horse, if the horse doesn't like it or it's hurting him - take it off. To those that know me you'll know all my horse's have open bridles, mostly no boots and snaffle bit only.

[triplev123]

I'd agree with that Don. The problem is that some use them for more than aid. A Trainer I know is given to saying "You can learn something even from the worst Trainer to have ever thad a horse, even if it is what not to do". Open Bridles, no boots and snaffles. Love it.