How do we make Harness Racing strong via today's sports betting market

[Toohard]

pfft marketing..easy.. go trots, watch Smoken Up. Awesome!!

[Amlin]

Look forward to hearing from you Cyclone about the Country Clubs meeting tomorrow - hopefully you will bring back some positive news for us forum followers on where the sport is going in Vic!

[Mitch]

G'day Mitch,

always like to see your thoughts expressed on the forum, you are a thinker and like the rest of us passionate about the game, I agree with some of the points you have made on this thread, but I don't think you can accurately say 'closing tracks loses us participants' is a generalisation. It is a fact some of our older posters have witnessed this very same thing a few years ago, some "SMART" people conducted "a robust review and analysis " carried out a "Sensible consolidation" removed the racing licences from many tracks and told us "we simply can't afford to keep them all".

Please forgive me mate if you get the impression I'm a bit cynical, but we have been down this road before and it had devastating impacts on participation levels in the sport/industry, to the point that we now struggle to fill fields everywhere and our market share in the racing gambling dollar is shrinking well below the other two codes.

We were once a true competitor for the thoroughbreds and now even the dishlickers are going stonger than us.

Make some enquiries about how you get a dog trainers licence Mitch, the process is nowhere near as convoluted as getting a harness trainers licence, which reminds me that is another idiotic debacle that needs to go, while you are at it ask anyone who has had to go through the "tech course" to get the harness licence and they will tell you they had to endure being "educated" by people that have never had a harness horse in their care in their lives!!! Talk about make it difficult for people to enter the game! and all for absoluteley NO GAIN! That shambles is all in the name of making the game more "professional".

We all want the game to prosper Mitch and we will all have differing ideas about the ways in which to do that.

New ideas that make us more relevant with a changing market place together with the knowledge that time and experience has given us will hopefully combine to save our struggling game, but lets not make the same mistakes all over again, the sport/industry needs more participants not less and anything that hinders new participants entering our game or pushes existing people away should be given the punt.

Cheers,
Dan

Dan,

I don't think you or Kevin are being cynical at all. You have very sound reasons for your opinion and much more experience than I do. Track closures wouldn't be top of my list and in fact they may not happen but I would like to see a review of track locations, facilities & infrastructure and catchment areas conducted by a select group of people. If this review was able to find a better landscape than the current and that meant some closures, then so be it. I agree that in the past some very poor decisions have been made regarding track closures and we should never make the same mistake twice.

Another point I would like to add that I missed from my original post is better prize money distribution across age groups. Interestingly the 2012/13 season was the lowest for 2yo starters to foals for the last 5 years and the greatest drop in horses earning prize money was in the 5yo age bracket (-12.7%). However we still continue to throw the kitchen sink at juvenile features and I am seeing more and more 4yo+ races get little or no increased support.

Personally I think we over invest in some of our juvenile/futurity races and don't put enough into feature 4yo+ races, particularly for mares. Juvenile feature racing is great to watch and most certainly plays a pivotal role in driving wagering turnover but whether the APG and Breeders Crown are worth $300k or $200k isn't going to materially change who does and doesn't compete in my opinion. Whilst me must maintain a strong juvenile feature race calendar supported with attractive purses, we must also better spread the prize money distribution for 4yos and open age pacers, especially mares!!

Note: I am not a breeder so I have no vested interest in promoting more support for mares. I just think it's the right thing to do.

Mitch.

[jackthepunter]

pfft marketing..easy.. go trots, watch Smoken Up. Awesome!!

Toohard with all due respect Smoken up has been a great champion. But if lance and owners had a "horse first mentally" they would have done the right thing by the horse and retired him 6 months ago or more. IMO the horse should have been retired as group one horse in a group one race. Not been pushed around week in week out for the sake of it in free for allers. I mean what more do their want of the horse? His won 3.5 million. Properly the same as 10 million in gallopers.

And lance knows it. He just doesn't want to stop being in the lime light. Look at the way his driveing him, Tonite a 32.2 first quarter, 30.5 second quarter. He would never even have worked him that slow in track work. And he only fell in . Two years ago he would have beat those horses by 3 or 4 lenghts.

To make exuses his a gelding or he stills wants to do it are a joke. No top sportsmen wants to retire their have to bee told. You only have to look at punch drunk boxers.

[aussiebreno]

Toohard with all due respect Smoken up has been a great champion. But if lance and owners had a "horse first mentally" they would have done the right thing by the horse and retired him 6 months ago or more. IMO the horse should have been retired as group one horse in a group one race. Not been pushed around week in week out for the sake of it in free for allers. I mean what more do their want of the horse? His won 3.5 million. Properly the same as 10 million in gallopers.

And lance knows it. He just doesn't want to stop being in the lime light. Look at the way his driveing him, Tonite a 32.2 first quarter, 30.5 second quarter. He would never even have worked him that slow in track work. And he only fell in . Two years ago he would have beat those horses by 3 or 4 lenghts.

To make exuses his a gelding or he stills wants to do it are a joke. No top sportsmen wants to retire their have to bee told. You only have to look at punch drunk boxers.

When you run within yourself and he has never been a noted sprinter it us hard to put a gap on them in 26.9 final quarter. Didnt just fall in as you say. If he goes his usual quick quarters Chilli Palmer sprints over top of him but as we've seen past few weeks not even Chilli can make ground in 26 quarters (oh but Themightyquinn can). Good driving.

On topic. Good thread, good topic Messenger. I haven't had time to post my thoughts but most of what I would have said has been touched on so I won't bore you with details.

[Toohard]

Toohard with all due respect Smoken up has been a great champion. But if lance and owners had a "horse first mentally" they would have done the right thing by the horse and retired him 6 months ago or more. IMO the horse should have been retired as group one horse in a group one race. Not been pushed around week in week out for the sake of it in free for allers. I mean what more do their want of the horse? His won 3.5 million. Properly the same as 10 million in gallopers.

And lance knows it. He just doesn't want to stop being in the lime light. Look at the way his driveing him, Tonite a 32.2 first quarter, 30.5 second quarter. He would never even have worked him that slow in track work. And he only fell in . Two years ago he would have beat those horses by 3 or 4 lenghts.

To make exuses his a gelding or he stills wants to do it are a joke. No top sportsmen wants to retire their have to bee told. You only have to look at punch drunk boxers.

The thread about promoting harness racing. If the last 400m of that race last night wasn't the best promotion for a long time then I'll go he. And note...FREE promotion.

Fell in? He was headed after they turned. Then Chilli Palmer had him in his sights. And he still won. That from a horse that doesn't want to do it?

Don't know why you taking a pot shot at Lance. He drove the horse to win last nights race against the horses that were in last nights race. And he did it perfectly. He won.

He's doing it to keep himself in the limelight? Please...gimme a break. You go out to the trots when he's racing. People turn up to watch him race. Doesn't matter where it is or what type of race it is, they turn up.

Go check out the trots items on social media. See how many people comment about him before and after he races. Every time he bowls around. You don't think that's one of the reasons he might still be racing?

They are a long time retired. Why would you retire him when he's still competitive and providing so much enjoyment to so many people (and free promotion!). Everyone had him written off 6 months ago. Then he broke 1.50 round Menangle again. Not following one....doing it himself out in front. Everyone was wrong. Lance was right. He'll know when it's time for the horse to retire.

Punch drunk boxers get knocked down and don't get up.... Smoken Up does.

[gutwagon]

Jackthepunter I agree with you 100% about Smoken Up . I and most of the people I know in the industry think it is sad to see him still going around , he is a shadow of his former self. And Lance hits him 50+ times a race with the whip , not a good add for the sport.
I think this would be a great chance for him to retire with a win !

[Messenger]

We are bordering on going off topic - I will summarize and say 'having/promoting champions is great for the sport' and can create a following of the horse and the sport. Why promoting drivers could also have benefits but let's not go down the 'sex sells' line that some have suggested for it is simply off - champions should be promoted and of course you are going to use other drivers who are media savvy.

[Toohard]

Sorry Kevin maybe off topic too but didn't want start new thread. Tonight Channel 9 news 6-7pm (Vic for sure..dunno bout other states) something good (didn't want say 'positive') about standardbreds. Ex racehorse now police horse story going to be on.

[Messenger]

Sorry Kevin maybe off topic too but didn't want start new thread. Tonight Channel 9 news 6-7pm (Vic for sure..dunno bout other states) something good (didn't want say 'positive') about standardbreds. Ex racehorse now police horse story going to be on.

Sweet