thornyyyyyy

[aussiebreno]

[QUOTE=triplev123;3347]Triple says...So if it wasn't Back Class...what was it then? Divine Intervention?
I didn't see Benny Hinn on-course at Menangle...did you?


C'mon. You can do better than that surely?

Up until the end of March 2010, 11 months ago, that horse had a slate of 27 starts for 14 wins & 5 placings 6 wins were in 3yo company. His next two were in C company, the next three were an M0 an M0/M1 and an M1/M2 (all lesser class than last nights race) That leaves 3 wins. A C7+ beating Red Army who was an M1 back then and only a M2/3 now. Another was the Gawler Cup beating Shardons Rocket who was an M2 at that stage and is now only an M3. And of course lasts nights win an M1/M3. Last night was on par with the highest class race he has won - he has never been in and beat an M3 horse yet he beat Virage and Prince Benji who are M4+ horses. Mister Anthony was not a back class - he has raced in claimers and M2/M3 races for the past 3months. His highest class race, the Ararat Cup, he got well beaten by an M1 pacer - all bar 1 of the field were higher class than Mister Rhys - how can you say Mister Anthony was back class?????. over nearly 2 years of racing, under the care of G. Webster from the first time he set foot on the track in anger. After 2yrs or so of very consistent form and after winning a lot of races against some good quality horses including The Gawler Cup, his last win for G. Webster, he tossed in a couple of ordinary efforts & spent about 6 months or so away from the track.
He came back in late, late October 2010, had 4 starts in against pretty solid/in-form M2-M3-M4 Which was the company he was in last night M1/M3 with only one M1 in the field but with M4+ pacers Prince Benji and Viragecompany at Melton for no disgrace but no result.
This was followed by 3 starts from the Stand over distances ranging from 2240m to 2760m, each time beginning badly against solid opposition An M1 pacer won the race not an M4+ pacer so Mister Anthony wasnt dropping back in class, two of three times sitting up outside the leader virtually throughout and getting beaten 5m, 8m and 50m, the latter after sitting in the breeze and tiring in the Ararat Cup. The result has no barance on whether he is back class. Eg Horse A sits in the death in an C4/C5 and goes down a lip. Horse B sits leaders back in a C6/C7 and gets beat 20m. Next start they both race in a C4/C5. Horse B is back class but horse A isnt.
Following those race he was dropped into a Claimer against some old hard arses and finished a fair way back & then his next start was at Menangle...and he wins against a field that was not as strong as compared to most of those he had been racing from the Stand & the Mobile in his previous 10 starts. If that's really such a big surprise then troops, I'm Mother Theresa.Im not arguing if he should have won or not; im arguing that he wasnt back class; because well, he wasnt![/QUOTE]In that claimer The Gunstar won. Virage and Prince Benji were better performed in the Inter Heats - so if anything by that Mister Anthony was UP in class.

[triplev123]

G'day justdoit,
Nah, I can see that we're going to have to agree to disagree. For starters I think you're getting yourself all hung up on the allotted class/es and not the Class of the horses that he has raced & beaten. Working backwards from March 2010 through to his 3yo season...Conte De Christo, Captian Cullen, Ima Spicey Lombo, Mendelico, Charley's Dream, Dazed And Confused, Maffioso etc. Now maybe I'm an easy marker but for mine that's hardly the CV of a horse that's lacking back class. The way I see it...this is Dartmoor all over again...in fact much closer than even I origrinally thoughts... as I neglected to mention that prior to the Claimer, in the three Stand Start events he raced in he came off 20m+ each time as I recall. I'll go to have a look & confirm.

[aussiebreno]

G'day justdoit,
Nah, I can see that we're going to have to agree to disagree. For starters I think you're getting yourself all hung up on the allotted class/es and not the Class of the horses that he has raced & beaten. Working backwards from March 2010 through to his 3yo season...Conte De Christo, Captian Cullen, Ima Spicey Lombo, Mendelico, Charley's Dream, Dazed And Confused, Maffioso etc. Now maybe I'm an easy marker but for mine that's hardly the CV of a horse that's lacking back class. The way I see it...this is Dartmoor all over again...in fact much closer than even I origrinally thoughts... as I neglected to mention that prior to the Claimer, in the three Stand Start events he raced in he came off 20m+ each time as I recall. I'll go to have a look & confirm.

How come he didnt win the last 10 starts then because according to you in all those he was back class.
Have a look at a horse called Too Bad (as one example). He has not just raced against but beaten Holy Camp Boy, Panorama Swing and Artifactor etc. Until he gets to an M4+ race one could say he is racing back class - using your logic. But has he even cracked an M0 yet?

[buster]

X

[triplev123]

How come he didn't win in his last 10 before Menangle? Buggered if I know. Unsuitable race conditions combined with more difficult opposition (stands and tougher marks?), maybe he was unwell, maybe he was depressed, maybe the planets weren't in the right alignment? Honestly, who really knows and can irrefutably pinpoint why horses lose and regain form. Some horses do it many times throughout their careers. These are flesh & blood creatures we're talking about here, they're not freaking motorbikes. All I'm saying is that IMO he had the back class to regain form and to again legitimately perform at that level and then some.

[aussiebreno]

How come he didn't win in his last 10 before Menangle? Buggered if I know. Unsuitable race conditions 1 combined with more difficult oppositionfalse (stands2 and tougher marks3?), maybe he was unwell4, maybe he was depressed5, maybe the planets weren't in the right alignment6? Honestly, who really knows and can irrefutably pinpoint why horses lose and regain form. Some horses do it many times throughout their careers. These are flesh & blood creatures we're talking about here7, they're not freaking motorbikes. All I'm saying is that IMO he had the back class to regain form and to again legitimately perform at that level and then some.

Stepped right into that one without even a struggle littly fishy, hook line and sinker! There are 7 reasons you just posted why he may have won last night as opposed to the other 10 starts he was 'back class'.
If you were following the horse ever since he first dropped back in class (after the Mildura Cup ht) you wouldnt be eating the paint off the walls, youd already have had your house repossed. To use back class as the reason the horse won just isnt on. If you done the form PRIOR to the race rather than AFTER the race you back class runner would have been Prince Benji, or even the favourite and Virage who ran behind Lanercost last week.

[triplev123]

???? Having a great deal of difficulty following your line of thinking there breno. In the context of the form of the horse being discussed, clearly your idea of what constitues back class and mine are oceans apart. So be it. As for you Buster, you should be bloody well ashamed of yourself. Either grow the Cahones to front up and make your accusations face to face... or knock it off. Best that you keep your eye out for Maker's Mark being sold on special. You've gone way past 1 bottle now. It's looking more like a case thereof.

[buster]

X

[aussiebreno]

???? Having a great deal of difficulty following your line of thinking there breno. In the context of the form of the horse being discussed, clearly your idea of what constitues back class and mine are oceans apart. So be it. As for you Buster, you should be bloody well ashamed of yourself. Either grow the Cahones to front up and make your accusations face to face... or knock it off. Best that you keep your eye out for Maker's Mark being sold on special. You've gone way past 1 bottle now. It's looking more like a case thereof.

???? Having a great deal of difficulty following your line of thinking there breno. In the context of the form of the horse being discussed, clearly your idea of what constitues back class and mine are oceans apart. So be it. As for you Buster, you should be bloody well ashamed of yourself. Either grow the Cahones to front up and make your accusations face to face... or knock it off. Best that you keep your eye out for Maker's Mark being sold on special. You've gone way past 1 bottle now. It's looking more like a case thereof.

This might be a foreign but lets do the form BEFORE the races. We will do tomorrow at Menangle.
Rc1 - C0 and C1 NWL5. Jennas Joy is the back class runner having been racing in C1/C2. All the C1s are also back class. Lilac Stride after racing in open 3yos.
Rc2 - 3C0-3C2. Our Mach Leigh raced in an open 3yo and is a 3C1 so he is back class. Screaman Seaman is also back class after racing in a good 3C0-3 last start and he is a 3C1 himself. To a lesser extent the 4 and 5 however they are only 3C0.
Rc3 - C0/C1. Beach Master after running in a C1/C3 last week.
Rc4 - C1/C2 Mares and C3 <$1500L4. No back class runner. (Although I'm sure you will find one that once raced against Lady Euthenia in a trial so is therefore back class for the rest of its career)
Rc5 - C2/C3 - Kazzs Buddy after racing in C3/C5 and C2/C5. Also Perfect Copy Lombo after racing in a C2/C5.
Rc6 - C0/C1 - Innocent Vance after racing in C0/C5s last 2. Note: Laughing Game is not back class. The Northern Frontier race was 4 starts back. Jan 18 he was racing back class but since then has been in the same class. Sign To Inverell also ran in a C1 last start so is not back class. Last start he was but not now.
Rc7 - C2/C3 - Littlechrissyadios after racing in C3/C5 last start. Flips Mate after racing in an M0. Everyone Dreams after racing in C2/C5s. Is Littlechrissy the only horse Thorn hasnt been able to win with? Buster you noticed this?
Rc8 - C4/C5 & M0 C6+ <$1500L4 & $6000 claim. San Fran Lady is the back class of the day. A C7 in with a mares and junior claim and is back from open mares grade. North Precint an M1 (how is he in the race) however is not back class as has been racing in C3/C5 last start - same for Black Fighter. Lady Euthenia is back class as a C9 - raced open mares then M0. Christian Troy is back class after racing C5/7 and C5/6.
Rc9 - Same conditions as Rc8. Slippery Nemo, General George and Good Boys are all back class.

So here are triplev123s bets tomorrow.
Rc1-8, 10
Rc2- 7, 10
Rc3- 5
Rc4- No bets
Rc5- 6,8
Rc6- 5
Rc7- 1,2,8
Rc8- 1,8,9
Rc9- 2,7,9
That is 34 unit spend for 1 unit Eachway.

Aussiebreno doing the form 'traditionally' (in fact it took me longer to find the back class runners than what I did to pick out my selections)
Rc1- Lilac Stride
Rc2- Screaman Seaman
Rc3- Glenhuggard
Rc4- Girls Rule
Rc5- Aceattack Jack
Rc6- Blueridge Mountain
Rc7- Littlechrissyadios
Rc8- San Fran Lady
Rc9- Bo Sparta

18 unit spend 1unit Eachway.

[triplev123]

breno, you're getting as good at shooting off on tangents as Buster.