Sprint lane debate once and for all!!!!

[Messenger]

No, RBD just grin and bear it. Tracks need to be consistent in what they do. It's not like superior horses or handing up and getting the sprint lane. The superior horse is leading anyway most of the time.
The PBD is no advantage if you are a weak squib who if used out of the gate has nothing to give. The PBD is no advantage if you are stuck running up backsides. The PBD is no advantage if superior animals or off and gone before you see daylight. The PBD is only an advantage if they can use that better draw to get a better run. The number saddlecloth you wear isn't the advantage, the advantage is getting a better run. You get that better run with a sprint lane. \
Yes we do want the best horse to win. I dislike seeing the best horse lose, whether the best horse got held in, done it tough in the death, got attacked all the way in the lead, had to come too wide, got too far back. We can let the best horse have a good shot at drawing 2-4, no sprint lane, nothing will attack, and it wins at $1.20 with not much money in the pool. Or we can give these other horses a chance. Remember, it's just a chance, not a portkey to the top of the podium.
There are that many different facets to a pacer, gate speed, closing speed, tactical speed, grinder, etc yet we all seem to hate on a pacer who's asset is closing speed. Surely a much bigger issue is the amount of leaders winning. At least those who lack gate speed and get crossed and then use the sprint lane take a few wins off leaders (who win by far the majority of races). Yet we all hate on a horse with closing speed, yet don't see much issue with a horse who's only real asset was it's gate speed to lead.

But Brendan does Mindarie Priddy deserve to be on the Oaks honour roll?
Barynya is a good horse mind you but what if this was a colt being beaten in the Derby by a horse gifted the run - it could make a difference to his chances of being sought out by a leading Stud

[The Form Student]

Do you know what, I can't believe these comments.............all I ever hear on the media is............What is the favourite doing, where is it, what happened to the fave etc...The majority of punters supposedly back the favourites in most cases, and follow this horse/s in the run! So my hypothesis is that this is the horse most want to see win any race!

The punter whether they be casual or not, that does not consider the "sprint lane" in their form, will be leaving out a vital part......to their detriment!

We already have so many variables involved controlling harness racing, too slow or too fast sectionals - you get fined!......you must disclose change of tactics - going forward or going back! - or with or without cover! It will be getting to the stage where we will have a choreographer preparing the runners for the staged event about to happen on the track.........All I have said is that I would like pure unadulterated racing...........no interference in any respect from outside............wouldn't that mean on the ideology of facts, that more often the better horse would beat the less better horse!.......Isn't that the way things should be in reality! Isn't that what punters want! Isn't that what owners/trainers/drivers would expect!

You mention you back things for a place etc, because they might get the 'hand of god run", and get the place for you!.........well the odds might be double if it was a truly run race of equal chances!

I hate favourites, my form revolves around getting them beat.......sometimes I have to face the reality the favourite looks the winner, and need to accommodate this!
No Sprint lanes at Gloucester Park..........smaller track, 800 metres.......no one whinges or complains when a horse gets held up for a run.

Menangle 1400 metre track, no-one whinges when runners get held up...........why change the course of a race!

[Maorisidol]

So i replayed the first 11 races last Sat nite and it goes like this,

To read my "language" B9 means barrier 9
3P means 3 pegs
3W means 3 wide
i think you should get it...

swan hill
B9 won leader at bell
2nd B13
initial leader B2 3rd had Sit USL not good enough
B1 3P =5-6th not good enough. ZERO EFFECT SL

Albion Park
leader B2 4TH
B3 Sit, LAST!!!
Winner B2 slow beginner settled 1/2 4w from 400
2nd 3w the trip, 4-5w from 400 B10 ZERO EFFECT SL

Globe Derby
B3 led
B2 Sit $1.70 Fav
1/1 B9 $11.80 Won
Fav USL 2nd. Fav backers lost, but they got a chance due to SL!!! SL used to positive effect for Fav backers.

Swan Hill
B1 led $3.20 won. g lang stacked em up, sprinted at 350m…to good
B3 Fav $1.50 challenged for lead, Sit, 2nd, USL couldn’t do it. gave punters a chance tho cos USL, HOWEVER lead drivers skills beat the SL!!!!! So SL gave Fav backers a better chance to win by USL not going around leader covering extra ground, however horse couldn't do it,

Albion Park
B4 led Fav $1.90 2nd no excuse
B2 Sit $4.70 faded 7th no excuse.
B11 Death, $5.40 Won too good.
B1 3P USL 4TH SL effective to get 3P into 4th... apart from First 4, no effect on betting!!!

Globe Derby
B2 Fav led Won
B7 Sit $6.50 Did Not USL, came outside leader 2nd.
B1 3P faded 7th ZERO EFFECT SL

Swan Hill
B6 led $6.70 3rd
B2 Sit $53.60 faded 7th!!!
B1 Fav Death Won
B8 1/1 2nd ZERO EFFECT SL

getting tedious now…
AP
Sit $16, 3rd no real advantage leader drifted out.
winner came from back.
leader 6th. ZERO EFFECT SL

GD
SL Zero effect.
leader won $23! ZERO EFFECT SL

SH
Sit horse $75! about 5th 30m behind
3P similar odds similar distance.
1/1 B7 USL, 2nd…
leader won B5 Fav. SL used by 1/1 horse cos $75 horse faded, went under leader to give itself a better chance, but still couldn't win.

AP Finally!!! After 11 races...
B1 Fav $1.80 led
B8 Sit USL WON!!! $8.70
Fav backers spew in that fav not good enough, both horses had equal runs, Fav backers had every chance. $8.70 Owners happy as cos they got a fair go!

Hers an interesting one, first race at Melton just now,
leader B4 $52
Sit B1 $12
Fav 3W the trip, wins,
interesting that the $12 shot 3P only got within half length of $52 leader.
MOST on here from what I've read would PERCEIVE that the $12 would run down the $52 with advantage of the SL, THAT DREADED SL, but it didn't.

So it just goes to show in my opinion that sometimes when some people yell and scream and cry about certain things they have a beef about, reality is, it might just not be as bad as you think!

Now granted, this is only a VERY small gathering of statistics, but it says to me that
1. you gotta be good enough to take ADVANTAGE of the SL and many times the Sit horse or 3P are not
2. horses are horses and sometimes "animals" prove they are made of flesh and blood and don't do what most may expect, hence a $1.50 getting rolled by a $8.70 or a $12 NOT catching a $52 via SL.

If Kevin on here does the stats for Melton for this month, will be very interesting to see results. Thnx Kev!
However this is city racing and not indicative of country racing which makes up the majority of all trots races in Australia so is also a small percentage.

[The Form Student]

I like your thinking........maybe weak horses are better off not getting out and getting a run......it may improve their chances to just follow the leader, rather than get cold wind on their faces!

[Messenger]

I will be doing the Stats all season Ash but even though I do it for every race on the program - I was only going to do it for the Metro meetings. I think I will stick to that as I won't miss one of them and I figured you tend to get less lopsided races (that is a horse classes above opposn) at Metro meetings

I can tell you that 3 horses that have sat 3W for the majority of the last lap have won so far at Melton's Metro meetings this season and yet none from the 1x2 or 1x3 (locked up by the 3w lane?)
With many more meetings to come - it will be interesting to see what the stats reveal

[Race For Fun]

As I wrote earlier I don't like sprint lanes. But I think that they are coming for most tracks. Every time I hear or read something about sprint lanes all I can think of is Blacks A Fake should have won five interdoms but for a sprint lane. All the work that he did in that race and to have a horse get a run inside him was just cruel. Mister Feelgood goes to stud an interdom winner (and he is a very good horse). For owners and trainers it's also getting done out of place prizemoney by a sprint lane runner. Place prizemoney helps feed the horse for the punter to have a bet on next week.

[Messenger]

The answer of course is long wide straights to give more runners a chance but that puts the trots unique amphitheatre experience at risk

[The Form Student]

http://bit.ly/1DAZ08i

Forget sprint lanes. This currently being trialled in France. Will certainly add some more variables to the punt!

Now that would be a good idea here, install that halfway down the straight, and then see who finishes, if any do! How lucky was that horse not to come down, forget about horses jumping shadows!

[The Form Student]

So, that's what it's really about? Not what's good for the industry, but what's easier for you?
As an occasional mug punter (I sometimes have a bet without having read the form) I actually just back a horse drawn towards inside of front row because you know it will get an easy run - whether that's the lead or leaders back it doesn't matter. It's going to have a chance. I would have thought term mug punter pretty much rules out the punter looking too in depth at pros and cons and that's why it's easy to invest on something that will have every chance. So that's increasing turnover (just as Brent mentioned he is inclined to back something at $3, or $4 the place because it might get a sprint lane).
I would have thought it was form students and not mug punters who are more affected by the variables a track with a sprint lane possesses. There a thousand variables when doing the form, just get used to it!

It's not what's easier for me, I don't care........I prefer to go without it, then the race is a true race! I have seen people punch around horses that could not ever get behind the leader or 3F if their life depended on it, to take advantage of the position, so how come those that can, get a further advantage!............you explain that to me?
Keep an eye on that hamstring!

[Big K]

But Brendan does Mindarie Priddy deserve to be on the Oaks honour roll?
Barynya is a good horse mind you but what if this was a colt being beaten in the Derby by a horse gifted the run - it could make a difference to his chances of being sought out by a leading Stud

Kevin,champion horses win whether there is a sprint lane or no sprint lane..if it wasnt good enough to win on the night then thats how it is,it happens some times.Irrespective of how the race panned out it did not win!So in my opinion,no it does not deserve to be on the Oaks honour roll.