Smoken up returns a positive

[Mighty Atom]

I'm amazed they still use Phenylbutazone, its been around since the Battle of Trafalgar.

[Flashing Red]

It works, what can I say! :P One thing I liked about racing in America - because you were allowed trace amounts in the horse's system, you could give it at 24 hours. I would always give some to my horses after their mid week hobble and then the day before the race. I was the biggest bagger of bute before I went over there (I am partial to alternative & herbal medicine myself) - but my tune changed when I had claimers that had had 200+ and 300+ lifetime starts... a little bute here and there kept them going and happy and took away those wear and tear niggles

[Mighty Atom]

Some of the old trainers in the west like Bill Johnson (top trainer in the 50's & 60's) had some amazing herbal potions they had developed particularly for leg problems. There's still a place in modern racing for some of the old remedies.

[Iraklis]

I have been going to harness races since 1975 got invloved in 1985, but it has only been over the past 18yrs or so that these comments have been made to me, although they have gotten a helluva lot more regular, and they have been suspiciously accurate when made........and just to reiterate, THE COMMENTS WERE NOT MINE BUT THOSE OF PEOPLE AROUND ME (made on several occassions over the years), hell I just like to see em run! I DO NOT however bet, I have been an owner/breeder, I just love the sports side of harness racing.

Expanation: 'to hook out at the 600/400 take off round em and go, and keep on goin' pretty self explanatory, and I say again NOT EVERY HORSE THAT WINS THIS WAY IS ON SOMETHING..........I did not say all races won this way either, but the mind boggles if you do go back over other races (any other races), that said, I believe those 'who know what they are lookin at' know it when they see it and that's when it's mentioned. I wasn't gettin it either til I asked someone to explain. You cannot tell me you have not heard the murmurings when someone is under suspicion such as when ie. G Small was being looked at seriously, well it was several years before that, that I first heard the murmurings concerning him (neither did I believe it then, most people in the business in general know) and then he was caught out......

Breno, Im not sure whats up with you mate, but you seem fixated with the 'Performance Enhancing drugs' thing, what is that?, when you should be lookin at whats really being said (I would say read my post again but that would be futile), everybody talks to everyone in harness racing, and if you think that it was a total surprise that G Small, M Purdon and others etc were eventually caught out then your either naive, or very young! you are definitely not understanding my posts, I most certainly am not advocating the use of 'any kind of drug at all far from it' if you neither cannot or do not want to understand what is written that then I cannot help you there sunshine, my posts are clear.

Dazza, will not dignify your post with a reply other than to say grow the F!@#$ up!!!

Further more, to everyone, I am not looking for anyone's support in what I have posted, as what I have posted is a statement, it is an observation made after listening to people involved in all aspects of the sport, who have a consistent habit of proving to be right in their observations, over the past 18yrs. When I heard 'oh that horse is on something' again on Finals night my initial thoughts were somewhat cynical, and yes I too thought it was a case of jealousy, and soreloser-itis etc etc, but when the news hit I thought here we go again...........I was at all of the nights of Interdominion racing, and all though a Kiwi thru and thru (and yes it did sting somewhat gettin trounced on home turf, but we got the trotters ID so it wasn't that bad) and I know when I'm lookin at bloody great horseflesh and I have to tell you if Mr Feelgood did dishes I'd marry him (sorry Monkey), but this KIWI has said all along 'IF IT IS PROVEN........' and all you lot are behaving like it has been already whats with that???!!!!

Cheers Iraklis

[buster]

iraklis - it has been proven, he got a positive swab, the second swab is only done by the connections in the hope that it comes back negative so that they can argue that the testing procedure wasn't correct or something along those lines - under the nz rules of racing he is already guilty and is up to him to appeal the pending conviction or penalty (which in other dmso cases was very very low but all horses were disqualified and the trainers were all cooperative(g small included) and 1 trainer even proved the dmso was a contamination - he still lost the race)

[Mighty Atom]

I see there's been a comment or two stating that there is not a drug in the world that can make a horse go faster than what it is physically capable of..... that's true, but there are drugs which will enable the horse to maintain top speed for a lot longer.

[aussiebreno]

I have had it said to me several times by 'people who know' and I quote ' if any horse takes off at the 600/400 rips round em and takes off, they're on something',

Cheers Iraklis

I have been going to harness races since 1975 got invloved in 1985, but it has only been over the past 18yrs or so that these comments have been made to me, although they have gotten a helluva lot more regular, and they have been suspiciously accurate when made........and just to reiterate, THE COMMENTS WERE NOT MINE BUT THOSE OF PEOPLE AROUND ME (made on several occassions over the years), hell I just like to see em run! I DO NOT however bet, I have been an owner/breeder, I just love the sports side of harness racing.

Expanation: 'to hook out at the 600/400 take off round em and go, and keep on goin' pretty self explanatory, and I say again NOT EVERY HORSE THAT WINS THIS WAY IS ON SOMETHING..........I did not say all races won this way either, but the mind boggles if you do go back over other races (any other races), that said, I believe those 'who know what they are lookin at' know it when they see it and that's when it's mentioned. I wasn't gettin it either til I asked someone to explain. You cannot tell me you have not heard the murmurings when someone is under suspicion such as when ie. G Small was being looked at seriously, well it was several years before that, that I first heard the murmurings concerning him (neither did I believe it then, most people in the business in general know) and then he was caught out......

Breno, Im not sure whats up with you mate, but you seem fixated with the 'Performance Enhancing drugs' thing, what is that?, when you should be lookin at whats really being said (I would say read my post again but that would be futile), everybody talks to everyone in harness racing, and if you think that it was a total surprise that G Small, M Purdon and others etc were eventually caught out then your either naive, or very young! you are definitely not understanding my posts, I most certainly am not advocating the use of 'any kind of drug at all far from it' if you neither cannot or do not want to understand what is written that then I cannot help you there sunshine, my posts are clear.

Dazza, will not dignify your post with a reply other than to say grow the F!@#$ up!!!

Further more, to everyone, I am not looking for anyone's support in what I have posted, as what I have posted is a statement, it is an observation made after listening to people involved in all aspects of the sport, who have a consistent habit of proving to be right in their observations, over the past 18yrs. When I heard 'oh that horse is on something' again on Finals night my initial thoughts were somewhat cynical, and yes I too thought it was a case of jealousy, and soreloser-itis etc etc, but when the news hit I thought here we go again...........I was at all of the nights of Interdominion racing, and all though a Kiwi thru and thru (and yes it did sting somewhat gettin trounced on home turf, but we got the trotters ID so it wasn't that bad) and I know when I'm lookin at bloody great horseflesh and I have to tell you if Mr Feelgood did dishes I'd marry him (sorry Monkey), but this KIWI has said all along 'IF IT IS PROVEN........' and all you lot are behaving like it has been already whats with that???!!!!

Cheers Iraklis

Got to the bolded bit; went back and read you original post and it confirmed what I thought you said. As I said to someone in a private message I am not going to bother replying; you almost hooked me in but once I got to the bolded bit and seen you lying I am not even going to bother reading the rest of your drivel.

[aussiebreno]

I have been going to harness races since 1975 got invloved in 1985, but it has only been over the past 18yrs or so that these comments have been made to me, although they have gotten a helluva lot more regular, and they have been suspiciously accurate when made........and just to reiterate, THE COMMENTS WERE NOT MINE BUT THOSE OF PEOPLE AROUND ME (made on several occassions over the years), hell I just like to see em run! I DO NOT however bet, I have been an owner/breeder, I just love the sports side of harness racing.

Expanation: 'to hook out at the 600/400 take off round em and go, and keep on goin' pretty self explanatory, and I say again NOT EVERY HORSE THAT WINS THIS WAY IS ON SOMETHING..........I did not say all races won this way either, but the mind boggles if you do go back over other races (any other races), that said, I believe those 'who know what they are lookin at' know it when they see it and that's when it's mentioned. I wasn't gettin it either til I asked someone to explain. You cannot tell me you have not heard the murmurings when someone is under suspicion such as when ie. G Small was being looked at seriously, well it was several years before that, that I first heard the murmurings concerning him (neither did I believe it then, most people in the business in general know) and then he was caught out......

Breno, Im not sure whats up with you mate, but you seem fixated with the 'Performance Enhancing drugs' thing, what is that?, when you should be lookin at whats really being said (I would say read my post again but that would be futile), everybody talks to everyone in harness racing, and if you think that it was a total surprise that G Small, M Purdon and others etc were eventually caught out then your either naive, or very young! you are definitely not understanding my posts, I most certainly am not advocating the use of 'any kind of drug at all far from it' if you neither cannot or do not want to understand what is written that then I cannot help you there sunshine, my posts are clear.

Dazza, will not dignify your post with a reply other than to say grow the F!@#$ up!!!

Further more, to everyone, I am not looking for anyone's support in what I have posted, as what I have posted is a statement, it is an observation made after listening to people involved in all aspects of the sport, who have a consistent habit of proving to be right in their observations, over the past 18yrs. When I heard 'oh that horse is on something' again on Finals night my initial thoughts were somewhat cynical, and yes I too thought it was a case of jealousy, and soreloser-itis etc etc, but when the news hit I thought here we go again...........I was at all of the nights of Interdominion racing, and all though a Kiwi thru and thru (and yes it did sting somewhat gettin trounced on home turf, but we got the trotters ID so it wasn't that bad) and I know when I'm lookin at bloody great horseflesh and I have to tell you if Mr Feelgood did dishes I'd marry him (sorry Monkey), but this KIWI has said all along 'IF IT IS PROVEN........' and all you lot are behaving like it has been already whats with that???!!!!

Cheers Iraklis

Ok I lied too (irony number 1); I did get read the rest. Ironic part 2 though is how you think I'm not the one who understands.

Just about any horse who is going to win a couple of races could go bang at the 600 and clear out; these type of wins aren't really suspect. The suspect wins are where horses do a stack of work; not sit then sprint late (which generally occurs when horses take off at the 400/600)

You then use reasoning saying everybody talks etc...if everybody talks wouldn't your buddies know prior to the race..why arent they commenting before the race rather than after?

[aussiebreno]

I see there's been a comment or two stating that there is not a drug in the world that can make a horse go faster than what it is physically capable of..... that's true, but there are drugs which will enable the horse to maintain top speed for a lot longer.

May have been me that said that; but yep agree 100% with what you have said anyway

[Iraklis]

Breno, now your gettin it, the point is THEY DO, (sorry bout the 'bolding bit' I just had to put it in to PYO) the comments have not been only made after, but during, before the start of the racing (whilst just hangin out in the lounge or wherever sometimes up to weeks or months before), at trials, workouts, around the stables (just in general) you name it..............why are you incredulous, these things are widely spoken about furtively, my point is why????.........to stamp out the doping scourge would it not be better to openly speak about it? you really don't mean to tell me you have never been privy to someone ie. speaking about 'so and so dopes his horses' or 'his horses are on something' not exactly word for word but anything along these lines, you heard it and thought nah, then a few weeks, months down the track it all comes to light......and I think you mean 'the bolded bit' as to the letters in bold, yes? that was done in punctuation does that help, the portion of the post I think your referring to I wrote as quoted, not my words but what was said to me at the time, when it was said I didn't think he meant literally every horse, I took it to mean, that if it is out of the ordinary, perhaps I should' ve elaborated that; from what was explained to me it's about a certain style any particular horse races at (just any horse in general) which is not like your classic sit n sprinters etc etc but out of the usual......it is however a rather mute point now

Buster, what a friggin shame, I seriously didn't think it had been proven yet, what a friggin shame, is all I can say........................those Inters race nights were just the best and although we got hammered (onya's aussies) I loved the racing, it was huge it was the best, got to see Blackie (bein cool in his stall), got to see my fav Monkey (what's up with the mighty monk he's not lookin good) PTara and The Doosit (yes he can! flag waver for us Kiwis, got a big soft spot for this fella) Mr Feelgood (the total professional, lookin very business like) mate it was harness heaven..........

Cheers Iraklis

PS. Oiy anyone got any news on Better Cover Lover???