Breeders challenge final menangle

[triplev123]

I believe the TT routine on NSW Breeders Challenge Finals day was proposed by Harness Breeders NSW. I reckon it must have been one of Cloughy's brainstorms as he's still trapped back in the last Century somewhere. Thank Heaven for small mercies that it failed to materialise.

[mango]

I am totally against time trials, and believe they should not get a mare black type.

Lets face it. There is not a mare on this planet that cant go to menangle and time trial in sub 2 min.

For them to then get black type is a total farce

Hi Mightymo

The only way a mare won't break 2mins in a trial around Menangle is if it has an anvil strapped to one of it's back legs. New Zealand sale books have mare's with Time Trials all through it and i suppose most of them trial at Ashburton. When you take a good look at some of the TT mare's in the sale books you will find some mare's that have had 10 starts 3 place's but Time Trialled in 57 it's a total joke and they should get rid of this as it's in NO way BLACK PRINT and i'll agree with you Mightymo it's a total farce.

[desibg]

You guys seem to have a good understanding of sales etc... What do you think will happen to sales results in a few years times once the current crop of mares have foals and because of Menangle, alot of Mares are going to have 1.55 beside there name, where as the rest of Australia aren't getting near these times. Do you think it will make it will effect on sales?

[triplev123]

I don't think it will matter much Desibg, I don't think times alone will have any effect at all...because it's all relative.
We bred a filly that set the Overall 3yo Track Record at HP of 1:56.0 for 1760m back in early 2005 and it was never bettered. That was absolutely low flying back then but step out and run that today at Menangle and pretty much nobody would even raise an eyebrow. Step out and go that same trip at Menangle over the 1609 and that filly hits the wire somewhere in the early to mid 1:51's and that would raise an eyebrow.
What will have a big influence on the Sales will be the level of earnings that they'll be able to compile at Menangle, it will be the best $$$ anywhere in the Southern Hemisphere & right up there with the best prize money available anywhere in the World. That will make a difference.

[aussiebreno]

Maybe others may be different; but if I was going to spend money on a yearling I would do more research then the sales guide. Everything has to be put into context. All other things being equal eg tesio rating and conformity a 1.58 mare at Harold Park 2160 from the death trained by Joe Blow who's second best horse ever ran 2.04 is much better than a 1.58 Albion Park 1660 leaders back trained by John McCarthy yet the sales book will have them exactly the same. You gotta put it into context or as VVV said its all relative.

[mango]

Hi Breno

You are right you should do more research than just read the sale book i often go back through and watch there race replays if you can find them on the computer and also go through there race stats see who they raced and how they went over all.

Hi Triple

Summed up beautifully, not sure if i'm correct on this next call but i think if a horse can go 2:01 around Bathurst over the 1730m it runs 1:57 easy at Menangle over the mile.

[Rids]

Guys,
Given we have touched on sales, what are your thoughts on the Premier Sale in Melbourne ? Personally I think all it does is congregate the heavy hitters on a selection of choice lots selected by whoever. Once it's done the remainder of the series is basically branded consolations, I for one won't be sending any of mine down that track, and would have thought it would have run its course by now. Maybe other people don't see it that way.

[mango]

I don't like the format of having 2 Premium sale's there should be just one and should be taken in turns by Sydney and Melbourne.

[triplev123]

Under race conditions I'm not sure of the Bathurst to Menangle differentials Mango but that sounds about right to me. Other tracks wise, I think there's about 4 seconds or so difference between Melton and Menangle and it's closer to 5 seconds difference Newcastle to Menangle but that gap can vary depending on the weather. At certain times of the year with the right weather conditions Newcastle can be lightning fast. The (new) Harold Park track to Menangle was probably just a fraction more than 5 seconds. The old HP track (prior to all the banking etc) to Menangle, geeze...I reckon that would've been up closer to 8 seconds as compared to Menangle.

[triplev123]

Guys,
Given we have touched on sales, what are your thoughts on the Premier Sale in Melbourne ? Personally I think all it does is congregate the heavy hitters on a selection of choice lots selected by whoever. Once it's done the remainder of the series is basically branded consolations, I for one won't be sending any of mine down that track, and would have thought it would have run its course by now. Maybe other people don't see it that way.

G'day Rids,

We've got 5 to go under the hammer next year, 2 being aimed at the Premium on Friday night in Sydney, 3 more for the body of the Sydney catalogue on Sunday.
As a concept we support the Premium Sale and will continue to do so for as long as they care to conduct it... though this time around I think it should have been moved, lock stock and barrel to Sydney. I don't agree with splitting it in two. I think it is a retrograde step...but of course I am very happy to be proven wrong.
In terms of concentrating the heavy hitters, in theory that's a fair assumption but in practice for the most part that's not what actually happens. The figures from the most recent round of sales here in Oz are testimony to that.
In fact I sent the following piece to another forum when this very subject came up and in particular, where there was discussion over the perceived success or otherwise of last year's Premium Sale and the Sales in general.

It’s a lack of buyers for sure and that on top of the fact that the APG can only selectfor their Premium Sale based on nominations that they receive.
There were many yearlings that sold through the main body of the catalogue in both Melbourne and Sydney that, had they been proposed for inclusion, I am sure would have walked into the Premium section no sweat...but for whatever reason their Breeders chose not to nominate them.

As I recall there were in excess of 2 dozen yearlings in the main catalogue in Melbourne and around 2 dozen yearlings in Sydney (some 45-50 or so yearlings in total) that went for tickets at or inexcess of, and a good number of those were well in excess of, $20,000.

I’m all for the concept of a Premium Sale but I think there is some tweaking to be done to get it squared away again and so attract the nominations of ...if not the entirety... then at least the vast majority of the best yearlings on offer.

In keeping with the above, we had a very nice colt to sell earlier this year but our circumstances at the time would not allow us the opportunity to get away and go to Melbourne with him. We put him up in the main body of the catalogue in Sydney and we got $31,000. That was a good price, we were thrilled of course. Had he been in the Premium in Melbourne along with the associated extra expenses involved in getting him & ourselves down there etc. I don't think he would have sold for much more/any more than that...so we made the right decision.
Further to that, as I mentioned above, there were 40-50 other yearlings just like ours that were not nominated for the Premium section but that sold for prices of $20,000 or more. Some of their owners would have had ideological objections & made specific decisions not to nominate for the Premium section, some of them maybe didn't realise just how good their yearling was and were presently surprised and some of them were like us and couldn't spare the time away given their other committments. I think there's a lot more Breeders who find themselves in the latter group than many in the APG organisation currently realise. In the end, well bred/commerically bred, well made, well related, well presented yearlings with a swag of Stakes/Futurity eligibilities to back them up will always sell for good money.