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Thread: The New Ratings Based Handicapping System

  1. #101
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Dot will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    That is worth some thought
    I know that NSW and WA seem to run secondary meetings successfully but I wouldn't really know how successful they are financially
    I suppose balancing up that more people bet on weekends with having your meeting destined to be on Sky2.
    I once read in a Ray Chaplin (Equine Excellence) report that Sky2 as opposed to Sky1 costs you 40% in turnover (that sounds about right)
    I don’t know how financially successful they are either Kev. NSW is not tied to market share for revenue as Vic is but I doubt they would put it on if it was a real loser for them. NSW are also more atune to participant satisfaction, eg, reducing field size in the Metro $L5 races at Menangle from 12 to 10 though that would be a negative for turnover, then just driven by maximising turnover. The geographic separation between these meetings also means it isn’t necessarily a means to direct prizemoney to a different set of participants as there wouldn’t be a lot of cross over if they were held at different times. So my guess would be that they do alright on the turnover front.

    WA harness racing in recent times has become acutely focussed on increasing market share so I’m presuming these aren’t to bad for turnover either. Depending on where they are being held would make a significant difference to the participant mix if they were held at different time to GP fridays. As I understand it WA doesn’t get much say from Sky in when they put on their meetings so it could be they would hold it in a different slot if they could get one.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Dot will become famous soon enough
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    I can’t copy it here, perhaps Kev can, but doesn’t the very design of the ratings matrix make it clear it is designed to include races less then $4500? I didn’t attend any meetings so no idea what was said. Did no one think to ask if races could be for lower prizemoney? I don’t see how the matrix and ratings system can be expected to work without a significantly tiered sliding scale of prizemoney from the lowest rated horses to the highest as an incentive to achieve the best possible finishing position and progress up the scale.

    Even with tiered prizemoney it looks attractive, and without it even moreso, for someone or someone’s to exploit it, and not necessarily a big stable for a hobby owner trainer driver could do the same thing. How do they stop someone getting a horse who’s ability is in excess of its rating ( NZ the obvious place) and setting up camp somewhere with races in the say$2500 to $4999 or $5000 to $8499 prizemoney bracket for its rating and winning, getting the 3 or 4 points added to its rating, then being driven “dead” for the required 3 or 4 starts to bring its rating back to where it was, obviously still below its ability and then utilising it’s superior ability to win again. And repeating that over and over again, with in effect the horse rating never really changing, add winnings from the punt for when they are trying and it could be very lucrative.

    Don’t know what they have in mind to stop someone doing that. Can only imagine seasonal or overall earnings would need to be included in race eligibility conditions and horse whose earnings exceed the limit would have to be permitted to race in a higher rated race.
    Last edited by Messenger; 06-07-2019 at 10:55 AM.

  3. #103
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I believe the reason the matrix includes races less than $4,500 is to cover Tassie and South Australia where they already race for less
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  4. #104
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Dot will become famous soon enough
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    I’m well aware of the states that routinely race for less Kev (and both TAS and SA would be prime examples of what I wrote earlier about big stables targeting high value races amonget weaker populations of participants ) and that, as HRAs National Ratings Based Handicapping System the matrix produced by HRA covers them as well. Only glanced through the release ( very confusing if your not familiar with QLDs existing band system) but it looks as if QLD has incorporated some changes of their own to how it operates there

    But I didn’t think we were talking about RBHS presentations and the operation of the matrix in other states, but in Victoria and well, to me at least, an obvious question to ask would be if adopting the RBHS Matrix would that change the distribution of prizemoney which was previously linked to the M, C and R classifications.

  5. #105
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I have merged 2 threads under this similar but new title
    Last edited by Messenger; 07-19-2019 at 10:07 PM.
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  6. #106
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    NOTICE - ATTENTION INDUSTRY PARTICIPANTS
    HRA National Ratings Handicapping System

    Due to an unprecedented number of valid enquiries and complaints in the past two weeks, the United Harness Racing Association has called for an URGENT Meeting with HRNSW.

    Wally Mann
    UHRA Secretary
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  7. #107
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Dot will become famous soon enough
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    National Ratings/Programming in Victoria

    Circumstances have caused me to conduct a review of racing opportunities for my NR64 trotter in Victoria.

    Under NR and current programming for the period 8/8 to 30/9 2019 he is eligible for:

    4 mobile races with a Snr driver with no prospect of drawing towards the inside on the front row under PBD NR

    10 mobile races using a minimum 3NR point concession driver, no prospect of drawing towards the inside of the front row.

    26 standing start races, minimum of 10m handicap with Snr driver on 5 occasions. Majority of races would be drawn off 20m to 30m, on some occasions 40m or more.

    Under previous class system he would be assessed a T1 trotter, on last years results for the period 8/8 to 30/9 2018, if identical programming continued for the same period this year he would have been eligible for:

    16 mobile start races, all with a Snr Driver and 5 opportunities to draw inside of the front line.

    23 standing start races with Snr Driver able to start from front row on 13 occasions, and never off further then 10m.

    He has won 4 races lifetime, 2 former C class and 2 former R class, yet rather then have his racing opportunities improved and career extended by National Ratings and revised programming it would appear the opposite is occurring. I have raised my concerns with HRV. I can only suggest that other owners and trainers review their horses racing opportunities and if they identify similar concerns, raise them with HRV. The industry cannot afford to lose horses from the racing pool.

  8. #108
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I am sure I will get used to it but at this point I do miss the old C's and M's
    They were generally a pretty good indication of how many country and city wins a horse had had - the new NR requires a bit more research (especially to find out how many metro wins)
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  9. #109
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I look at the Melton card tomorrow and cannot help but think the horses in the R6 and R8 heats are being used ie putting on the show/providing for the punter, for less than they should be
    The races are for $4.5k to get into a $7k final
    All of them raced in $7k or more races at their previous start, 3 of them winners and yet here they consent to go around for $4.5k
    The harness industry is an accepting lot. I cannot imagine cricketers or footballers consenting to run around for half pay every 2nd week

    http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...20#MXB07072003
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    I look at the Melton card tomorrow and cannot help but think the horses in the R6 and R8 heats are being used ie putting on the show/providing for the punter, for less than they should be
    The races are for $4.5k to get into a $7k final
    All of them raced in $7k or more races at their previous start, 3 of them winners and yet here they consent to go around for $4.5k
    The harness industry is an accepting lot. I cannot imagine cricketers or footballers consenting to run around for half pay every 2nd week

    http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...20#MXB07072003
    I think you'll find about 250,000 cricketers/footballers go around in their chosen hobby for nothing every weekend!

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