When is HRNSW going to scrub these people out for pos swab's let's clean our industry up for good we don't need dishonest people in our game
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
What I find really intriguing is that despite the infinite range of modern substances that could be employed by the do no good-ers in order to enhance a horse's performance, clearly good old Arm & Hammeris hanging around like a much disliked Mother-In-Law.
I've never been able to get some sort of definitive answer in what this can do for a horse's performance. How does it effect the horse exactly?
Naturally no-one reading this would have any personal experience but I would be interested why anyone would consider using this and risk their whole career and reputation by trying to cheat just to make a few extra bucks.
I'm no expert on this and will happily stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that it reduces the amount of lactic acid and also delays the onset of lactic acid during a race. That is why it appears to make horses "stronger" - they don't get fatigued as quick as what they normally would. This would then allow them to be competitive against a better quality of horse too.
That is why I feel 1.5 hour post race TC02s are so important. After a race, a horse's TC02 will drop, however if administered bicarb, that level will keep rising until it is above the allowable threshold (37 mmol maybe? I'm not sure off the top of my head). Menangle's minimum 2 hour arrival on course will help stop trainers giving their horses bicarb before the race, the theory is if given close enough one will be below the threshold straight after the race. That is when the post race 1.5 hour TC02 tests stop these people in their tracks. The extra 1.5 hours gives the TC02 time to rise if bicarb etc was given. I think the winner and 1 random horse in each race should be post race TC02ed like in America. The random test is also needed - not knowing when you will be tested is just as effective as knowing you will ALWAYS be tested, but cheaper.
Just my 0.02 cents, anyway
It's an acid buffer & a very effective one, delays the onset of muscle fatigue as a result of lactic acid build up.
Can be somewhat hit & miss however because it can work really well on some horses while having virutally no apparent influence on others.
20-25 years ago or so I reckon that it was really rife here in Sydney...and if you watched them closely you could pretty accurately spot what I used to refer to as 'Bi-carb' efforts.
Used to be on for young & old over the 11 & 3/4 furlongs. Horses from certain stables would leave pretty hard to make the front, back it off for a peice in the first quarter and commence to roll through reasonably fast middle sectionals come middle 600m or so. Around about half way through the 3rd quarter they'd look to be off the bit & plugging, for all the world like they were going to be swamped...but they'd somehow keep on rolling on the lead at around the same speed and they'd hold off the rest of the field. Deep in the stretch...and quite clearly despite the Hand of God not having appeared from above to intervene before the Chiko Roll sign was reached...somehow they'd still be there, off the bit and slogging away and they'd often end up winning.
I could have worn a few horses racing that way, indeed some of them naturally do so...but when a host of previously not so brave to verging on speed rats changed stables & started damned near Pure Steel-ing it from 3 furlongs out...I remember that they raised more than a few eyebrows at the time. Good old Arm & Hammer. Allows some horses to maintain their top speed for longer and keeps your fridge smelling fresh too.
flash/triple v words are all spot on
i'd like to see some stables kept back 4 hours after they race as well, theory behind this - when bicarbing they will have done it previously not at the races and drawn blood, got it tc02 tested themselves and thus know exactly the amount and timing required to get the maximum results without giving a positive..probably still getting 35...what this doesnt cover is how high it will be several hours after the race...hence if they are bicarbing they will be caught 100% this way
triple v..its cheap, easy to use, everyone knows how to tube, gets very good results, minimal adverse affects, allowed to have it in your stables, no chance of a residual swab weeks later and usually very weak penalties = bicarb the perfect performance enhancer for a speedy squib
good to see they are finally testing these people, no accident they've caught 6 horses in 3 weeks
If a horse has been given bi carb, will it show up in pre race testing or only post race, or both?
Flashing said
I'm no expert on this and will happily stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that it reduces the amount of lactic acid and also delays the onset of lactic acid during a race. That is why it appears to make horses "stronger" - they don't get fatigued as quick as what they normally would. This would then allow them to be competitive against a better quality of horse too.
What Flashing said is true and correct
Edited due to request from HRNSW
Last edited by Greg Hando; 08-23-2011 at 04:34 PM.
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
Pre race as long as urine sample is tested i am lead to believe it show's up only in urine samples but stand to be corrected on that oneOriginally Posted by mightymo
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
If they give it close enough to the race, it will not show (or more correctly, they won't get a reading above the threshold) before the race. Post race TC02 tests -and not immediate post race, must be 1.5 - 2 hours post race - is what stops the practice. Rules requiring horses to be on course at least 2 hours before the race obviously sets back when a horse can be given bicarb and thus allows the level to rise before the pre race TC02. While this may be effective against someone who has to travel, people living in close proximity to a track that uses this strategy - well it wouldn't affect them as much as they do not have to factor in traveling time.
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