Where could we have a 2nd Melbourne metro track?

[gutwagon]

Sandown would be a nightmare for horses from the north and west of the state to get to, and as we know the east can barely put together enough horses for a meeting.

[Dot]

During the week I don’t doubt it Rick but on Saturday nights? What if all Metro meetings revert to Saturday nights as I understand is intended for this season at Melton and with Sandown as the alternative/turnabout Metro venue? As a recall it now Chairman Dale Monteith identified in his review after the last election it was essential for the future of harness racing in Victoria that there was a second Metropolitan venue in the south east.

Cranbourne is south east but I don’t think it really counts as Metropolitan. As someone else wrote recently we have to dream in our sport, and in my dream Sandown would include quite a large horse population training there.

[Messenger]

Officially Cranbourne is metro.
Being in Casey shire - No 6 on the map and the 6 is pretty much where Cranbourne is
(map is a bit fuzzy - 6 is 3rd furthest to the right)
But Portsea is officially metro too!

[Toohard]

Sorry but why would you spend money that you don't have on another track? Do you think people would turn up? We don't race on grass so it's not like we need another one to rest the existing one. People dont turn up to the gallops at Flemington that has it's own railway station. AFL has Docklands right on the edge of the city (with its own station) and most weeks its half empty (full).

People don't get off their bums and go places anymore. Why would you? You can watch on the telly/phone live and bet on your phone/PC. Why sit in endless traffic jams especially in middle of winter?

Even in the halcyon days of harness racing when people did turn up there was only one metro track. Why build another that no one turns up to?

[Messenger]

You are probably right Paul.
And I guess that could be an argument for making the metro track at Melton - if people are not going to come, we may as well put it close to where the greatest concentration of trainers are.

If on the other hand the industry believed attendance could be important and that they could arrest its decline - then Melton limits their catchment area

AFL, I think is an exemption to the trend in that their attendances have continued to marginally increase every year

Even if you only pull huge crowds on a few occasions a year eg Gallops, I think it has spinoff for the rest of the year.
Oh for harness racing to pull it off even once would be a start - to get a huge crowd = media coverage = presence in the sporting landscape

[Dot]

Don’t get too uptight Paul it’s a (mostly) hypothetical discussion for interests sake, and you’ll note earlier references to US Lottery wins. Cranbourne may technically be in the Metro area but I think it’s a really hard sell that it is a Metro track, and being seen as a Metro track by punters is important as every states Metro track generates more turn over then any other, but with Cranbourne being very obviously a provincial track at best for gallops punters how do we sell it to the punter as a Metro venue for harness?

That’s exactly why Melton was put where it was Kev because it was close to a very large trainer base, and for that reason the council supported it, but the downside has been that it is located on the opposite side of town from the wealthier areas of Melbourne that provided much of the ownership base in the Showgrounds and Moonee Valley days and caused a decline in interest in ownership accordingly.

But is Melton still located close to the largest population of trainers? Pretty sure many of the harness properties along the western highway and surrounds out to Melton and beyond have been consumed, or will be by the urban growth zone, meaning that there will no longer be a large number of trainers close already ( or soon) to Melton unless a training centre is built? But as Paul has said people don’t go places anymore and he’s right. So is retaining Melton and building a training centre there, bearing in mind the HRNSW budget for building the Menangle training centre was $10m and they also didn’t need to buy land, the right thing to do for the future of harness racing?

Or do we actually need a completely new model for the future of harness racing that doesn’t include a “Metro” track ( and training centre) at Melton or indeed a track in the Metro region at all. Do we become a regional sport only? With say 3 racing ccts based around the three principle regional towns/cities Ballarat, Bendigo and Shepparton ( Mildura remains as an “island”) and each of these tracks hosting in turn the states “Metro” meeting on a Saturday night? If we’re going to sell Cranbourne as a Metro venue to punters can we not sell each of these three tracks as a “Metro” venue for the stay at home punters in Melbourne (and elsewhere)? I’d think there’d be a chance at least that each of these tracks as the populations grow could draw a similar sized crowd to the track as Melton does and can cater for. For trainers the cost of regional property is much less then in the Metro region, and its far more likely our future trainers will come from country and regional areas rather then suburban Melbourne. And we would need to travel horses through city traffic jams. But would we draw enough owners?

I won’t be going to the HRA conference, perhaps we can do a little brainstorming here?

[Messenger]

Interesting post Dot.
I liked the ideas of Anthony McDonald (see http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...-Racing/page10)

Over two years he spoke to everyday people in their homes and found the message around harness racing the same. “I love horses, I like racing but I don’t come to the track because I don’t gamble.”

“We have become so focused on advertising the gambling and wagering side of the sport, that we don’t sell the experience and the one thing that most people actually love – the horses.

“At the moment around two percent of your population attended race meetings last year. Instead of trying to saturate that market and make that two percent wager more, why not try and get the other 98 percent onboard?

“You can do that by utilizing the unique opportunity we have in harness racing. Get them to fall in love with the sport by making them part of the story. Give them the opportunity to fall in love by giving them value and affordable options, and I can guarantee they’ll come to the tracks, and they’ll bring their family and friends to the track too."

Where would such a strategy fit in?

[Messenger]

Who makes up the VicTAB pool?

Before turning off the idiot box I see Singapore gallops on Thoroughbred Central and notice the size of the win pool
Shocked, I do some research
I don't know whether R3 is going to reach the level of R2 which had $285k Win pool and $180k Place pool (who needs attendance)

How do we compete with that?

The Shep trot run around the same time held $20k Win and $9k Place

Singapore R3 now jumped and they ended up with $337k Win pool - is this all Australian money at about 10.30pm AEDT?

[Dot]

Who makes up the VicTAB pool?

Before turning off the idiot box I see Singapore gallops on Thoroughbred Central and notice the size of the win pool
Shocked, I do some research
I don't know whether R3 is going to reach the level of R2 which had $285k Win pool and $180k Place pool (who needs attendance)

How do we compete with that?

The Shep trot run around the same time held $20k Win and $9k Place

Singapore R3 now jumped and they ended up with $337k Win pool - is this all Australian money at about 10.30pm AEDT?

Are they commingled pools Kev, so Vic tab punters are betting into the Singapore pool? And it’s the combined pool showing? Can’t imagine it wouldn’t be. Wouldn’t like to imagine it isn’t commingled !

[Dot]

Interesting post Dot.
I liked the ideas of Anthony McDonald (see http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...-Racing/page10)

Over two years he spoke to everyday people in their homes and found the message around harness racing the same. “I love horses, I like racing but I don’t come to the track because I don’t gamble.”

“We have become so focused on advertising the gambling and wagering side of the sport, that we don’t sell the experience and the one thing that most people actually love – the horses.

“At the moment around two percent of your population attended race meetings last year. Instead of trying to saturate that market and make that two percent wager more, why not try and get the other 98 percent onboard?

“You can do that by utilizing the unique opportunity we have in harness racing. Get them to fall in love with the sport by making them part of the story. Give them the opportunity to fall in love by giving them value and affordable options, and I can guarantee they’ll come to the tracks, and they’ll bring their family and friends to the track too."

Where would such a strategy fit in?

Anthonys message was increased ownership increased attendance and I guess the strategy would be to include incentives for those living in Melbourne to visit regional Victoria! I would like to think that coinciding with a shift out of Melbourne metro would be an increase in the quality of the vision provided for punters and virtual reality experiences for fans and prospective participants.

Moonee Valley will have 35 night gallops meetings a year after the redevelopment, think it was Saturday nights, and how many will Caulfield have and what night when they get their lights? Would we do better going head to head with them at our “metro” venue (Melton or Cranbourne) for attendees? Or would we do better with our “metro” meeting at a major regional centre on the same night as night gallops and where our prospective attendees could experience live harness racing and watch Melbourne night gallops on our big screen? Although of course the all important question is which is best for wagering returns.