Roll With Joe
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Stallion books to be limited to 150 (and more)

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kevin O'Donoghue
    Location
    The Gap
    Occupation
    Retired
    Posts
    8,405
    Horses
    A long, long time ago

    Stallion books to be limited to 150 (and more)

    http://www.harness.org.au/media-room...?news_id=43998

    No more 347 (free) services like Mr Feelgood in 14/15
    The Thin Green Line - Supporting the Rangers who protect the world's endangered animals against poachers

  2. #2
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
    Real Name
    Rick Mckinley
    Location
    Melbourne
    Occupation
    Dreamer
    Posts
    620
    Horses
    Peaces Of You, Final Peace.
    I think it's a good idea but 10 years too late. Unlimited books lead to the closing of many studs and reduced the stallion pool greatly. They still need to help the colonial stallions with some bonuses .
    Don't die wondering !

  3. #3
    Senior Member 4YO KTQ will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Katie Howlett
    Location
    dubya eh
    Posts
    453
    Horses
    Jack Mac, Sugar Street
    I just don't know what I think about this.
    • A lot of breeders (my parents included) won't breed to anything but the best proven stallions. No top stallion availability means fewer bred.
    • People will book years out for their preferred stallion leading to sold out situations years in advance.
    • The studs call their preferred breeders to book in so they will sell out very early and smaller breeders won't get a look in (Captain Crunch was announced today and sold out within 40 minutes, Art Major is sold out also and American Ideal will have very few bookings remaining as he was in triple figure bookings earlier this week)
    • The best mares will continue to book to the best stallions so the best stallions will look better against lesser stallions who get lesser mares
    • Non tech savvy people will have NO idea about this change. My Dad had no idea at all but I saw it on Twitter and told him. If I hadn't, we'd have missed out on some of our choice stallions. I can't imagine how older generations that don't have Twitter or Facebook will feel calling studs in September to hear every stallion they want is sold out.
    • it will make foals by the leading stallions sell at a premium. Harness does NOT have the prize money to warrant higher priced foals, especially when the TAB goes to its new owners.
    • Sometimes your mare is surprisingly cycling early and you use whichever stallion is closest with top fertility (at least for us in WA). If the WA stallions are sold out, there's potential for our mares to miss. Similarly, sometimes a stallion just isn't getting your mare in foal so you choose another. Available pools will be very small and we just won't breed.
    • With the stipulation that the 151th foal won't be registered, how will they track mares in foal? They're relying on positive vet checks but we've had mares show that they're not in foal and SURPRISE!!! out pops a foal! What if you report that your mare isn't in foal and you decide to not breed it again, they sell your dose to reach their 150 and the mare IS in foal. Also, how do they factor in stallion fertility? Some stallions are very fertile - others are not. Studs will lose out with lesser fertile stallions because they wont be able to oversell to counter the infertility in case the stallion actually gets the mares in foal

    • Some breeders WILL go to the better bred colonials if AM, AI, BD are sold out so they will see higher numbers
    • Colonial stallions may see better quality mares so it may increase their performance

    They should have warned the industry earlier. Perhaps even done a staggered approach - 300 this year, 250 next year, 150 the year after. and how about communicating this earlier in the year!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
    Real Name
    Rick Mckinley
    Location
    Melbourne
    Occupation
    Dreamer
    Posts
    620
    Horses
    Peaces Of You, Final Peace.
    Katie, going by last seasons figures only 5 stallions served more than 150 mares in Australia. BD and AI were not in the 5 . So if they are sold out already you could say this new limit has increased their numbers. I think BD and some other imports already had limits lower than 150 placed on them by their owners. Probably so they could boost the fee.


    Captain Crunch is not a "Proven Stallion" so why consider him ? You said they only breed to "Proven Stallions".



    Under the limits a stallion can "serve" 150 mares, not get 150 in foal. So you shouldn't get that 151st foal you mention.


    It is much better for the long term future of the breed to have a larger gene pool of stallions available. These so called lesser stallions will get a better chance to produce more top line foals and become proven stallions.


    Personally I don't judge stallions by the prices their yearlings bring at sales, I prefer winners/foals and stakes/foal. I think this current mentality of trying to produce high priced yearlings is killing the breeding industry.



    Warning the industry earlier would not have prevented the rush to book to the top few stallions. Don't forget stallions can still serve another load of mares in NZ and many of those foals will end up here !



    The way the breeding industry was heading we would have ended up with only 4 or 5 studs left in Australia. That couldn't be good, this will keep more studs alive.


    Anyway that's my 2cents worth, I'm sure many will disagree.
    Last edited by gutwagon; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:33 PM.
    Don't die wondering !

  5. #5
    Senior Member 4YO KTQ will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Katie Howlett
    Location
    dubya eh
    Posts
    453
    Horses
    Jack Mac, Sugar Street
    Quote Originally Posted by gutwagon View Post
    Katie, going by last seasons figures only 5 stallions served more than 150 mares in Australia. BD and AI were not in the 5 . So if they are sold out already you could say this new limit has increased their numbers. I think BD and some other imports already had limits lower than 150 placed on them by their owners. Probably so they could boost the fee.


    Captain Crunch is not a "Proven Stallion" so why consider him ? You said they only breed to "Proven Stallions".



    Under the limits a stallion can "serve" 150 mares, not get 150 in foal. So you shouldn't get that 151st foal you mention.


    It is much better for the long term future of the breed to have a larger gene pool of stallions available. These so called lesser stallions will get a better chance to produce more top line foals and become proven stallions.


    Personally I don't judge stallions by the prices their yearlings bring at sales, I prefer winners/foals and stakes/foal. I think this current mentality of trying to produce high priced yearlings is killing the breeding industry.



    Warning the industry earlier would not have prevented the rush to book to the top few stallions. Don't forget stallions can still serve another load of mares in NZ and many of those foals will end up here !



    The way the breeding industry was heading we would have ended up with only 4 or 5 studs left in Australia. That couldn't be good, this will keep more studs alive.


    Anyway that's my 2cents worth, I'm sure many will disagree.
    SERVES, NOT FOALS?!?!? Well that's even worse! We've got mares that never get in foal the first time around. eesh

  6. #6
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
    Real Name
    Rick Mckinley
    Location
    Melbourne
    Occupation
    Dreamer
    Posts
    620
    Horses
    Peaces Of You, Final Peace.
    Katie, one mare counts as one mare being served regardless of how many times it is inseminated.
    Don't die wondering !

  7. #7
    Senior Member 4YO KTQ will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Katie Howlett
    Location
    dubya eh
    Posts
    453
    Horses
    Jack Mac, Sugar Street
    I swear my brain is painted on sometimes

  8. #8
    Senior Member 4YO Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Trevor Brown
    Posts
    324
    I didn't see this coming and I do not understand the motivation for it. Stallion books used to be limited to 125 mares. Books were opened under the fear of a restraint of trade challenge.

    It will be interesting to see if a restraint of trade challenge materialises this time. It appears the likes of Harness Breeders Victoria, of which I am no longer a member, has been blindsided by HRA's decision. HRA gave no reasons or background for the decision when announcing it.

    One thing is for certain. It will not encourage people to breed more horses. The continued decline of the horse population is the real, and only, issue.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts