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Thread: NZ v AUS Stallion Services

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    NZ v AUS Stallion Services

    The patronage certainly differs for some (last season's services)

    Betting Line 129 Au v 36 Nz

    Downbytheseaside 119 Au v 70 Nz

    Art Major 163 Au v 89 Nz

    Sweet Lou 163 Au v 105 Nz

    Vincent 163 Au v 106 Nz

    American Ideal 136 Au v 42 Nz

    Sky Major 0 Au v 89 Nz

    Always B Miki 170 Au v 201 Nz

    Captain Crunch 150 Au v 171 Nz

    Bettors Delight 117 Au v 171 Nz

    Raging Bull 0 Au v 48 Nz

    (Somewhat surprised to see Captaintreacherous numbers had dropped 80 & 50)
    Last edited by Messenger; 06-18-2021 at 04:18 PM.
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    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Adaptor will become famous soon enough
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    Stallion Servces...bu $ for some

    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    The patronage certainly differs for some (last season's services)

    Betting Line 129 Au v 36 Nz

    Downbytheseaside 119 Au v 70 Nz

    Art Major 163 Au v 89 Nz

    Sweet Lou 163 Au v 105 Nz

    Vincent 163 Au v 106 Nz

    American Ideal 136 Au v 42 Nz

    Sky Major 0 Au v 89 Nz

    Always B Miki 170 Au v 201 Nz

    Captain Crunch 150 Au v 171 Nz

    Bettors Delight 117 Au v 171 Nz

    Raging Bull 0 Au v 48 Nz

    (Somewhat surprised to see Captaintreacherous numbers had dropped 80 & 50)
    The amount of $ that have left Australasia to Bettors Delight's US owner syndicate is staggering

    No wonder HRA are attempting to change this .
    Last edited by Adaptor; 06-19-2021 at 11:16 PM.

  3. #3
    Junior Member Foal Lorraine will become famous soon enough
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    How did you calculate that amount????
    Do you know how much of Bettors Delight is owned by Woodlands stud

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Do you know Lorraine?
    I don't think Woodlands own any of Bettors
    But they do own his Southern Hemisphere rights
    I wonder how many $ that involves going to the US - not that Woodland would be complaining
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    Interesting numbers to ponder. I can see why HRA wanted to impose a levy and, with proper explanation and consultation, might have got the proposal up. The numbers also highlight the varying perceptions participants in Australia and NZ have about stallions and there progeny.

    Betting Line has 27 2yo's in NZ with only 5 qualified and only 1 starter (on 11 June). My read is NZ breeders DON'T see him as the successor to Bettors Delight. He has done better in Australia with 9 individual winners this season but only 2 multiple winners. Still, with 154 live foals you get the feeling Aussie breeders have bet all their chips on the black with him. You would really be hoping he can improve on his (so far) 6% winners to foals from this crop. NZ figures suggest he may struggle.

    Betting Line also suffered from third season blues with only 62 live foals last spring. Maybe the 25% discount "early bird" service fee worked by the increase in numbers this season.

    Sweet Lou just hangs in there in NZ but the returns on service fees at the sales have evaporated. Sweet on Me was his initial stand-out 2yo. She is out of Adore Me (and the milk cart horse could throw a winner from her and her relatives) and won 6 of 7 2yo stars, retiring with $246k in stakes. Her only defeat was when 2nd to Amazing Dream in the Cadeuceus Club Classic, the only time the latter drew a barrier inside her all season. Let history be the judge about which of the two was superior.

    Alladin, a $140k yearling, surprised many by winning the Harness Millions 3yo on new years eve. He repaid his new owners $106k of the $100k they paid for the gelding a week earlier. It is all fun for his owners from here but I seriously doubt others will be so lucky. While he is leaving some nice "bread and butter" types but, considering the quality of mares he has received, has not really left a big tick on his progeny. I'm a fan of Spirit of St Louis though and he has already paid for his Queensland trip.

    American Ideal has thrown top class pacers in Australia but Copy That is his pretty lonely flag bearer in NZ. Interestingly, he is his sire's sole starter in a NZ Trotting Cup which may tell you something. How many American Ideal's has Mark Purdon trained? It may be a case of of history repeating itself. In the early 1960s Deep Adios stood his first three seasons in NZ. Unloved by breeders, he became a stand-out sire of top liners lin Australia. No doubt his NZ bred South Australian stars Adios Court and Deep Court persuaded many breeders to patronise him. American Ideal might prove similar.

    Art Major is not a pensioner yet but his Seniors Card is well worn. Alabar has done a great job managing his fertility and continues to do so. Which brings me to his heir apparent.

    Vincent has de-bunked history of third year sires. An incredible 163 mares covered in Australia probably reflects the effectiveness of his best advertisement. The horse himself and his progeny. I admit to being a card carrying member of the Vincent cheer squad but, seriously, what is not to like? Getting 106 mares over the Tasman is another great result where he is seen by many as a great outcross for the Bettors Delight x Christian Cullen mares you will find in every second paddock.

    It is too early to predict how good his 2yos will be but reports from both sides of the ditch are very encouraging. He was a terrific 2yo himself. What many don't know was, after winning on the Saturday at Invercargill (Ultimate Machete 3rd) he was to have flown to Melbourne on the Tuesday for the Breeders' Crown. Unfortunately a minor bone chip on the trip home consigns this story to what might have been.

    Sky Major was purchased by Trevor Casey at the end of his career to give the horse a stud opportunity. Trained by Barry Purdon he was a class horse winning just under $800k. He has around 34 yearlings with good reports about them, temperament particularly. He stood very cheaply his first season to attract mares, a strategy that paid off big time this season by the look of it. He won the Chariots of Fire and won heats and was placed in two Breeders' Crown finals Gere so he deserves a chance.

    Guess we just wait and see with the others. I know of one Downbytheseaside yearling in NZ that anybody would be wrapt to own so I am looking forward to seeing how they go here.
    Last edited by Showgrounds; 06-21-2021 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Spirit of St Louis

  6. #6
    Senior Member 4YO KTQ will become famous soon enough
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    Our Vincents (I think we have 4 yearlings and 2 weanlings) are all identical- fat, round, short cheeky sh*ts. Not sure Id breed to him again until he proves himself

    I take back what I said. While they're not huge, they're all well developed and very strong. Still cheeky but personality abound.
    Last edited by KTQ; 07-21-2021 at 12:08 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTQ View Post
    Our Vincents (I think we have 4 yearlings and 2 weanlings) are all identical- fat, round, short cheeky sh*ts. Not sure Id breed to him again until he proves himself
    Sorry to hear that, it is not typical of his stock. We both agree that you need to wait and see!

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    Senior Member Colt Big K will become famous soon enough
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    The info I was told is that over 16 million dollars leaves Australia's shores in Service Fee's to internationally owned stallions.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
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    I don't think a tax on overseas owned stallions is the answer. I think big money races for Aus bred and owned stallions is the way to encourage more patronage for our stallions. Imagine a Vicbred/Breeders crown type series for progeny of local bred stallions only.
    The new Vicbred first win bonus is a good start.
    Don't die wondering !

  10. #10
    Senior Member 4YO KTQ will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutwagon View Post
    I don't think a tax on overseas owned stallions is the answer. I think big money races for Aus bred and owned stallions is the way to encourage more patronage for our stallions. Imagine a Vicbred/Breeders crown type series for progeny of local bred stallions only.
    The new Vicbred first win bonus is a good start.
    Do VIC (and NSW etc) have VICbred and double VIC bred incentives like WA? Huge bonus if your horse is West Bred and even bigger bonuses if the winner is by a WA standing stallion.

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